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 Post subject: Neroth's Betrayal of Beltine
PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2016 7:47 pm 
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This is brought out in the mod Upon a Distant Shore. I confess I have a vested interest in finding more about this given my primary character is a val'Ishi Beltinian Exorcist. I'm wondering if this is mentioned in any other product. As far as I recall no. So I'm wondering what Neroth could have done to make Beltine hang herself? His "murder" of Illiir is a possibility, but I can't help wondering if that's the real answer. I hope to find out eventually (hint to Henry). ;)

The other possibility is this tale is a metaphor to represent something else. I invite comment and speculation.

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Haakon val'Ishi, Beltinian Exorcist 2.7 [Divine]
Ursula val'Holryn, Grand Master of the Tralian Hammer 2.2 [Martial]
Arun of Tultipet, Holy Champion of Neroth 1.10 [Expert]
Rikitsa val'Holryn, Psion 1.9 [Arcane]


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 Post subject: Re: Neroth's Betrayal of Beltine
PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2016 8:33 pm 

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I assumed its the oldest betrayal in the book. Why else would there be confusion about the parentage of Sarish? It is claimed that he is the child of Beltine and Neroth, and it is claimed he is the child of Cadic and Larissa. We've been told that both of these claims are believed (at least by one party or another, I assume). I'm guessing this is the confusion caused by Sarish being the child of Neroth and Larissa, and humans, when they learn/know one parent, assuming the other due to their pairings.

The big question I had was that it sounded from what was said that she wasn't the goddess of the afterlife until after the events surrounding that betrayal. That seems to be pretty much all she is the goddess of now. So what was she the goddess of before the betrayal?

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 Post subject: Re: Neroth's Betrayal of Beltine
PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2016 8:35 pm 
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I think it is fairly obvious that Neroth wanted to have an open relationship, but Beltine was having none of it. Neroth, feeling trapped in an oppressive relationship, told Beltine that he was leaving her for someone else. Shortly after, Beltine saw Neroth and Yig at the local movie theatre. Upset by the fact that she was left for an older woman (and a scaly one at that), Beltine had too much to drink and overreacted.

You have to read between the lines a little, but it seems pretty obvious to me.

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aka Leif - Skohir Warped One (Martial 2.6)
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 Post subject: Re: Neroth's Betrayal of Beltine
PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2016 8:37 pm 
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Good points both toodeep, and in some ways explains the tension between the respective faiths. Of course I don't know if I would admit to being Sarish's "parents." He is such a problem child after all. ;)

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Michael T. Hebert

Haakon val'Ishi, Beltinian Exorcist 2.7 [Divine]
Ursula val'Holryn, Grand Master of the Tralian Hammer 2.2 [Martial]
Arun of Tultipet, Holy Champion of Neroth 1.10 [Expert]
Rikitsa val'Holryn, Psion 1.9 [Arcane]


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 Post subject: Re: Neroth's Betrayal of Beltine
PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2016 8:41 pm 
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Akira I am glad I wasn't drinking anything at the time I read your post. You are a bad man, sir. :)

The concept of Neroth and Yig getting all cuddly in a movie theater boggles the mind. On the other hand Yig probably has "skills" that Larissa hasn't dreamed of yet. :o :shock: :twisted:

Man is this thing going off tangent or what. :)

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Michael T. Hebert

Haakon val'Ishi, Beltinian Exorcist 2.7 [Divine]
Ursula val'Holryn, Grand Master of the Tralian Hammer 2.2 [Martial]
Arun of Tultipet, Holy Champion of Neroth 1.10 [Expert]
Rikitsa val'Holryn, Psion 1.9 [Arcane]


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 Post subject: Re: Neroth's Betrayal of Beltine
PostPosted: Fri Jun 10, 2016 1:55 am 
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Maybe, maybe not.

I would note that (reading between the lines) the Union of Neroth and Beltine has rarely been portrayed as a happy Marriage (unlike Illiir & Saluwe and even Cadic & Larissa)

Some of this interpretation is due to the denunciations by (Kalte?) val'Ishi during the first convocation of the Divine which founded the Mother Church. Some of this is found in the treatment of the Beltinian temple in Canceri where the goal of life is to escape/transcend reincarnation and Beltine is seen as a minor consort to Neroth. Both modern temples seem to denigrate the other. I found it interesting that alone of the first Imperium citadels They have a joint outpost. I suspect the differences between Beltine & Neroth may have arisen since the Imperiums founding...

I agree it's important to think about when the estrangement might have happened.

If Beltine took on her aspect as the guardian of souls in "the mythic age" then I don't know if there is a big issue of what she did before tending the Cauldron. Almost by definition time is fuzzy in the mythic age. It might also be worth noting that the Cauldron may stand outside of regular time...if so it may not matter when in Arcanis time she assumed control. Once she has is dominion of it by definition it extends outward to where ever when ever the Cauldron touches. On the other hand ... If the rift is more recent (late first Imperium? Shadow Ages) then I think Larissa is unlikely to be the source of their arguments.

We know there was some kind of mysterious Celestrial shake up around the time when the First Imperium was collapsing. That's when the Mourners n Silence formed. And when Anshar (Yig) got dropped from the Kahlindrul. And when the Pantheonist priests went out of style. All more or less congruently. You can definitely put part of that on Leonydas, but I suspect there are other dimensions that have been suppressed from History.

Were there other divine shake ups happening at that time as well? I suspect that may be the case.

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 Post subject: Re: Neroth's Betrayal of Beltine [and other divine connectio
PostPosted: Fri Jun 10, 2016 3:20 pm 
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val Holryn wrote:
We know there was some kind of mysterious Celestrial [sic] shake up around the time when the First Imperium was collapsing. That's when the Mourners n Silence formed. And when Anshar (Yig) got dropped from the Kahlindrul. And when the Pantheonist priests went out of style. All more or less congruently.

I presume that the attitude towards Anshar in the Kahlindrul is because Khitan's Valinor leader knows "the truth" about Anshar's being Yig and not one of the original Twelve. That doesn't seem connected to the rest of the changes Eric cites.

It would be interesting for us players to try to trace down the formation of the Twelve as best we can guess. My guess is that the supposed "family relations" are actually "friendship connections" between Gods; though I'd at one point surmised it was maybe "international relations" between countries that worshiped each God separately. There are some indications, like the story in "Sacrifice of Generations", that mention only a few of the Gods and may be from early work of the Pantheon in forming itself. How much to trust old myths I don't know since myths can be complete fabrications by humans or changed by humans over the millennia even if based on reality. Myths of the rivalry between Neroth and Illiir are common enough that I put more trust in some veracity there. In "Secret of Semar", we learned that Althares was originally a god (orisha) from a distant continent (maybe other world? players never got confirmation whether it was on world of Arcanis, but characters should have known from stars and moons) which was also the home of the Abebi tribe. Some players have speculated that the Gods were originally an adventuring party; and I have one past PC who intentionally aimed to be ready to become or replace a particular God if it were necessary.

Without consulting sources, my intuitive feel is that the core Gods of the Pantheon were Illiir, Cadic, Hurrian, & Nier. Then Saluwe. Then Neroth. Then Larissa. Then others. My educated guess is that some of the core Gods found others and formed a club with eventual common goals. They didn't all start out together as one big happy family, and thus not a big deal to add Yig to the club when a seat became vacant after the Other "consumed" Lianni [sp?], Goddess of the Mind. Time travel makes it all messy, especially since we don't know the rules of time travel (e.g., can the past be changed?) in Arcanis.

Also, 5 points for Akira. :lol:

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Sestius Ovidius val'Mehan Comma and Khamat - psion patrician diplomatic legate and his Myrantian tutor
Quintus Ovidius val'Mehan - patrician military tribune
Amadi val'Abebi - Monk of Althares
Talathos - choleric Kelekene dabbler


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