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 Post subject: Discussions on History of Blessed lands!
PostPosted: Mon Dec 22, 2014 4:43 pm 

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I love this stuff! Reading this chapter gave me so many new things to obsess about! Here are some of the things that jumped out at me, and the questions I immediately had. Hope some of them are answered elsewhere in the book.

1. Pride of Manetas, as already discussed some

2. Segarthian trolls were made by the Ssethrics before the Elorii. AWESOME! So they are even an older race that the Elorii, but we have no idea when they left Ssethric “service.” Did they work alongside the Elorii in the genocides? Did some of them escape the Ssethrics before that and set up their own civilization then? What is the relationship between them and the Elorii? Did they rebel together? The Elorii should know at least some of this. This puts a hard target date that they couldn’t have “worshiped” Pyrrus before, but when did that start, and what is it? I don’t expect that to be answered anytime soon. 

3. Some humans were left behind on the old continent. Wonder what happened to them?
4. Two types of humanity? Wow! We knew humanity existed on the continent before the coming of the human gods (pengik right?), and we suspected some of the eastern empires weren’t part of the first empire, and this explains that, but I was shocked to learn they can’t interbreed (thus, technically, actually making them different races, right?) All this time, and people didn’t realize that “normal” people (and vals) couldn’t interbreed with the Pengik? Does that make us more closely related to the kio than pre-arrival humans?

5. Gift of Altheras to their people was the Altheran language – so what did they speak before that? All these people came over following their gods and the valinor, and they didn’t have a common language? What did they speak? Why didn’t they already have a common language? Make you wonder how fragmented they were. Did all the gods have their individual nations/peoples in the old continent, and thus language was divided by worship? If so, how did the followers of some of the gods feel about having their “mother tongue” usurped by this new gift from Altheres?

6. Interesting to see what Ul families correspond to what Val families. And for the Val families that weren't invited to become Uls, which ones are considered "unclean" or how they are perceived.

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 Post subject: Re: Discussions on History of Blessed lands!
PostPosted: Mon Dec 22, 2014 11:11 pm 
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I also found it very interesting. I think my favourite thing was the information for each section detailing what was needed for a PC to have the knowledge.

Regarding #5, this was one I had been thinking about as well. I don't have the document open at the moment, but I seem to recall it said that he gifted humans with a common language. I assume that would be Ancient Altharin, as opposed to the current Altherian tongue (and certainly not Low Coryani). I know Althares' gifts have been discussed elsewhere in the literature, are the other references more specific?

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 Post subject: Re: Discussions on History of Blessed lands!
PostPosted: Tue Dec 23, 2014 1:38 am 
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Henry has stated that Altheran IS Ancient Altheran. The Altherans keep the language sacred and in as close to its original form as possible as a form of worship.

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 Post subject: Re: Discussions on History of Blessed lands!
PostPosted: Tue Dec 23, 2014 10:49 am 

Joined: Thu Nov 07, 2013 9:37 pm
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I've heard that about Altheran and ancient Altheran, but than I've run into cases of ancient Altheran that we can't read because its ancient, so I don't know what to think. But I find it odd that all the people who followed their gods over from the previous continent didn't already speak a common language. I've been trying to think about the ramification of that.

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 Post subject: Re: Discussions on History of Blessed lands!
PostPosted: Wed Dec 24, 2014 12:26 am 
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On Languages: the previous campaign there was a reference to a precursor language called Old Manish. I like to call it really ancient Altherian.

At least in theory modern Altherian is essentially ancient Altherian. Just as Latin as remains Latin ... Altherian as a language is preserved. especially in Cants. I have always personally subscribed to the theory that limitations in modules of reading Ancient Altherian is due more to the necessity of limiting information (just the snippet that the module needs) or the author just doesn't know what's there. Or maybe bad writing where the author is trying to be mysterious? Writing mods is a complicated business.

On Two Tribes of Humanity: I find it hard to believe that no one can cross breed. And it adds the complication of describing people as one sub race or another. Pengik and Coryani are clear. Yhing Hir? Harns? Undir? People to the East? I wonder if maybe its just the folks with good flecked eyes who can't mate with vals (and maybe their vassal families). But that's me.

I've been lucky to have seen the History section early. And I agree its pretty awesome.

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 Post subject: Re: Discussions on History of Blessed lands!
PostPosted: Wed Dec 24, 2014 10:25 am 

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val Holryn wrote:
I've been lucky to have seen the History section early. And I agree its pretty awesome.


That explains some things! :)

The interbreeding thing also raises the question of why and what other effects it may have, since as far as I know Pengik is a allowed player race (it is just a tribe from the hinterlands, right?).

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 Post subject: Re: Discussions on History of Blessed lands!
PostPosted: Wed Dec 24, 2014 2:29 pm 

Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2014 11:17 am
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toodeep wrote:
We knew humanity existed on the continent before the coming of the human gods (pengik right?),

I think you may be over simplifying your humans.

Magic of Arcanis pg118-119 wrote:
The Pengik people are a conundrum to most scholars. While viewed as primitive, they have a very sophisticated social structure, and have astonished visitors with their advanced knowledge of medicine, plants and magic. Even more disturbing, especially to the few missionaries that have braved the Pricklespur Forest, are their stories about their creation and history. Most have discounted the stories of Serpent Gods as stories incorporated by the Pengik due to contact with Elorii, but others take their tales more seriously.
The truth of their tales lies closer to the surface that is commonly thought and none know this more fully than the Afatkuq. The cunning, but arrogant, Sethregorans allowed their Pengik servants to much access to their stores of knowledge, even allowing them to participate as assistants in some of their experiments. They took the knowledge offered, concentrating on certain aspects that they saw as useful too their people. Ever resourceful, they quickly
honed and mastered powerful medical techniques.
Generations passed before the Sseth realized that their servants had grown powerful off of their knowledge. Unfortunately for the Sseth, it was too late to undo what they saw as damage.
While the stories describe the Pengik as rising up against their masters, the truth imparted to the Afatkuq is that they fought to preserve their people. Realizing a failure, the Ssethregoran sought to erase their mistake, but that mistake fought back. The Afatkuq were critical in the preservation of the Pengik, for their ability to augment the body allowed the Pengik to overcome their masters, forcing them from the Priklespur. Some of the guardian creatures of the forest that are found today were the product of the Afatkuq’s surgery, and to this day, no Ssethregoran enters the forest
unchallenged.

Magic of Arcanis pg 94 wrote:
The Pengik, interestingly, were not surprised when the Elorii discovered their elemental affinities, and accepted Eloran teachings as an inevitability rather than as a new technique.


The Pengik are a creation of Technomancy from the Ssethregoran Empire that had expanded up to the Hinterlands. They are human in appearance but can tap into an elemental nature. Like the Undir and water, or the Kio and air. The Pengik can choose any element they wish but still only one. They might not be human at all. In the same way a val'Inares is a Val, but really they have a very different base structure from the other families that does create differences.

Anyway back to humans.
There could be 3 types of humanity.
1. Ones that were on Arcanis before the Other arrived (Ssanu had to make Pengik from something)
2. Ones that came with the Other
3. Ones that came with the Pantheon of Man

PoM men only knew that they couldn't breed with humans that were here before them but they didn't know who they were meeting.

There are too many sub groups of humans, Gold flecked eyes (Savosh), Kio, Naori, Undir, Pengik, Altherian, Myrantian, Chani, Harnen, Yhing Hir, Andyar, etc. with too many creation stories for us to be certain of lineage.
Who was here first? Who are the Children of the Other? We will have to wait and see.

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 Post subject: Re: Discussions on History of Blessed lands!
PostPosted: Wed Dec 24, 2014 2:57 pm 
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I don't have the book handy, but Ssethregore seems to paint the picture thatthe Pengik were discovered by the Ssethrics, not created ("Pinkskins").

Also, we can't forget the Naori, who also are elementally attuned and do not seem related to the other races of Man.

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 Post subject: Re: Discussions on History of Blessed lands!
PostPosted: Thu Dec 25, 2014 9:32 pm 

Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2014 11:17 am
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Ssethregore pg 3 wrote:
Pinkskins: A derogatory term used to describe humans (coined by the Ssethregoran in reference to their appearance as “Hairless Apes”.)

But you are correct they were found.
Ssethregore pg 10 wrote:
There was one group that drew the interest of Yahssremore, especially that of the scientists and Technomancers: the almost completely hairless brutish humanoids living in barbaric primitive squalor. Their apparent nakedness to the elements earned them the contemptuous Ssethric nickname “Pinkskins.” They were found in the Pricklespur Forest in the dry steppes to the northeast. These creatures called themselves the “Pengik” in their own rude tongue.

As an addition the Codex Arcanis states the Pengik believe the Ssethregoran created them and bred them for slave labor. But more interesting that that.
Codex Arcanis pg 111 wrote:
Some Pengik tribal roles are hereditary, and they proudly claim direct ancestry from the priest and warrior thralls that served and walked among these gods. These particular families are called the Inchan’gi (men and women of sacred blood lineage) and are typically larger and stronger, sometimes much more so than the typically small and wiry Pengik. It is also true that the Inchan’gi have almost superhuman physical attributes and long life spans.

While they were found by the Ssanu they had been altered by the Technomancers. It makes no mention of their elemental nature whether it's natural or added by the Technomancy. But it does state that Pengik have been mixing with other Yhing Hir tribes, specifically the Hurkomir, since their rediscovery.

Unfortunately with all this info, we still can't fit them with the Savosh who the humans of the PoM can't breed with.

I too find the Naori, Undir and Kio very interesting. Why are those 3 elementally attuned? The Pengik at least we know history to, and it's not to far a leap to think the Ssethregoran added minor elemental natures to them. After all they were experimenting in that sort of thing before they perfected it with the Elorii.
Undir have some story about worshipping a water god. Naori have a god living in a volcano or the god is the volcano. And the Kio...well I won't touch that one, but they are attuned to the Air.
Also is there a fourth one attuned to Earth?

Like I said there are to many human histories for us to sift through and make sense of at this time. I think we'll have to wait and see for when the answers come.

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