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 Post subject: Re: About the val'Holryn Family
PostPosted: Thu Jul 25, 2019 12:49 am 
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:creepy voice from a brown-robed old man:

"You will never find a more vile den of sin and iniquity outside of Nishanpur."

:/creepy voice:

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LA:5E; Magdelene of Ostermann, Dark-kin Courtesan Rog2/HC2 (future bard/twilight warrior)
LRC:OP; Seraphina "Flowerchild" Amakiir, Skill Hero


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 Post subject: Re: About the val'Holryn Family
PostPosted: Mon Jul 29, 2019 6:16 am 
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vandom43 wrote:
Tralia
Population: ~90,000-100,000
Ruler: Duke Konrad val'Holryn
...snip...
This isn't the original city of Tralia: Old Tralia was initially on the opposite side of the Tares River, before it was destroyed by Leonydas val'Virdan after the death of Prince Volthar val'Holryn (time for another archaeology expedition). To the north is Canceri and the Blighted Mire, ...snip....
Glad you mentioned Old Tralia. You are so right that an adventure set there would be cool. Though on the other hand it seems likely to have been picked over by now. Personally I have always thought of Tralia as being "a cousin" to the Borderland countries featured in the Wheel of Time books (Like Shienar). Tralia at its heart is a fortress and THE hub of defending the border from both invasion from Canceri & various horrors that spill out of there, or Faerdlau Woods, or the Blighted Mire. I imagine that the farmlands are fertile and picturesque. But I also expect the Cantons find "something" that keeps them "busy" as many seasons as not. If you have to travel at night on the roads of the Duchy of Tralia, I bet most people go in a group and armed. (Commoner or noble, if you live in Tralia I think you are probably armed).

vandom43 wrote:
The city itself is a center of intellectual and religious significance, as in past years the Arch-prelate of Tralia was the highest authority of the Church in the north.
It would be interesting to know if this is still true. Or how true. The Arch-Prelate of Tralia has traditionally been an Illiirite. Sabinius was the Arch-prelate and most senior member of the Milandesian clergy...and then became Primarch in their new church. However following his "passing," *coughcough*ahem*cough* the current Primarch is Ferric val'Ossan. Presumably Ferric is a Yaricite priest. Is he from Tralia? I would suspect Naeranth instead. It's possible that Tralia's historical primacy in religion is potentially in question. A possible friction point in Milandir at present.

vandom43 wrote:
In addition, The Great Library of Tralia itself holds a great number of books within, an excellent place to read up on the many epics and stories of the north.
The best Library in Milandir. Possibly with the exception of a presumed Royal College in Naeranth.

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Eric Gorman

AKA Ambassador Tukufu, man of letters, tomb raider and Master Sword Sage
. . . and Sir Szymon val'Holryn, Order of the Phoenix
Formerly Sir Jaeger val'Holryn. Weilder of the Holy Avenger: Thonanos. Gave his soul to help free King Noen


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 Post subject: Re: About the val'Holryn Family
PostPosted: Mon Jul 29, 2019 3:37 pm 
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Oh Tralia. . .

My understanding of Tralia's significance (this is from a fan, not anyone of authority) is that Tralia is the ancient "big city" which has become eclipsed by the upstart Naeraanth. It's old, it's populated, but its streets are tight, the infrastructure is a bit shoddier, and it just isn't as "imperial" as the new capital. If I recall correctly, Tralia was always something of a major power in the region, while Naeraanth only came to prominence because it was not destroyed during Leonydas val'Virdan's Theocracy of the Cleansing Flame (Tralia was very possibly a leader in the anti-Nierite resistance as it was led by a val'Holryn).

The way I think about it would be like Russia in the 1800's or so between Moscow (the old capital) and St. Petersburg (the new one). Moscow was the original capital, the seat of the Metropolitan (and later Patriarch) of the Russian Orthodox church, and was the home of a lot of the traditional aristocracy which followed the traditional Russian cultural practices. St. Petersburg began its life 1) as part of Sweden, and 2) as a bog in the middle of nowhere and Tsar Peter built a new glittering capital based on European models with urbane architecture, art, refined tastes, etc. Fast forward 100 years to about 1800 and St. Petersburg was considered a mecca of European culture with the latest fashions, concert halls, embassies, etc, while Moscow was this dark almost provincial city but of so much cultural significance the Tsar couldn't fully ignore it despite how 'embarrasing' it was to some of the Tsars for its backwards views and traditions. Of course, this changed following the Napoleonic wars when that same effete European (read: French) culture became tainted in the eyes of Russians and they began focusing more on Russian-ness again, but still.

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 Post subject: Re: About the val'Holryn Family
PostPosted: Tue Jul 30, 2019 6:47 am 
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Ahhh... something new from Cody to chew and ruminate on. Nice.

Nierite wrote:
Oh Tralia. . . My understanding of Tralia's significance (this is from a fan, not anyone of authority) is that Tralia is the ancient "big city" which has become eclipsed by the upstart Naeraanth. ...snip... Naeraanth only came to prominence because it was not destroyed during Leonydas val'Virdan's Theocracy of the Cleansing Flame (Tralia was very possibly a leader in the anti-Nierite resistance as it was led by a val'Holryn).
(I also speak as a fan and not someone with special privileged information.) In the time of the Cleansing Flame it is certainly possible that old Tralia was a more important site than Naeranth. Still we're talking about events roughly 2700 years ago in the campaign world. That's a little bit like explaining the modern middle east through the prism of events in 700 BCE. Which (thank you Wikipedia!) included: king Sennacherib launching (another) campaign into the Chaldean region, against the Babylonian rebel Merodach-Baladan II who conspired against him. Also Babylon's Assyrian-raised puppet king Bel-ibni died after a 3-year reign. He was replaced by Sennacherib's son, Ashur-nadin-shumi...

While I don't disagree that Tralia took a big hit getting burned to the ground by Leonydas, I think a better explanation is that Naeranth is a huge port on the ocean with easy access to Censure, Savonna and New Althre. Also it may well be the nearest major port for trade that comes out of the Blessed Lands. Against that Tralia (the city) is the jumping off point for all trade with the Black Talons and the Canceri trade that goes North-South. As well as a site that controls at least some precious materials. Not nothing! But also not on par with what's on offer in Naeranth. In short: when looking for an explanation of relative "power" between the two cities I prefer to put my chips down on geography...

Nierite wrote:
The way I think about it would be like Russia in the 1800's or so between Moscow (the old capital) and St. Petersburg (the new one). Moscow was the original capital, the seat of the Metropolitan (and later Patriarch) of the Russian Orthodox church, and was the home of a lot of the traditional aristocracy which followed the traditional Russian cultural practices. St. Petersburg began its life 1) as part of Sweden, and 2) as a bog in the middle of nowhere and Tsar Peter built a new glittering capital based on European models with urbane architecture, art, refined tastes, etc. Fast forward 100 years to about 1800 and St. Petersburg was considered a mecca of European culture with the latest fashions, concert halls, embassies, etc, while Moscow was this dark almost provincial city but of so much cultural significance the Tsar couldn't fully ignore it...snip
Hunh. I can certainly imagine that. But I've always thought about it in different ways. As a leader in the Milandesian League and as a province of the Coryani Empire I think Naeranth has always been preeminent. So I don't think in any political sense Tralia has been replaced. I think it's always been Milandir's "second" city (sorry Tresslau!). For real world comparisons I've always reached toward places like Budapest or maybe Pitesti in modern day Romania (It was sometimes the capitol of Wallachia when that was a thing). Budapest was never Vienna... Basically it's a major bastion of "order," or "civilization" and a regional power in a strategically vital area. It sits close to a contested borderland with "the other." Canceri. It's serves as either the rallying & launching point or the center of resistance depending which way the tide of armies are flowing this decade. Pitesti isn't somewhere anyone has probably heard of, but it's currently one of the regional capitols of Romania and may make an especially good comparison because it was also located on a river which it guarded against the Ottomans (mostly by the Bassarab dynasty which ultimately included "that guy" called Vlad). Pitesti was also a major center of learning way back in it's heyday.

Just my two cents. Moscow has an advantage over Pitesti in that we call know where it is. I agree Tralia is a crowded walled city with narrow streets.

_________________
Eric Gorman

AKA Ambassador Tukufu, man of letters, tomb raider and Master Sword Sage
. . . and Sir Szymon val'Holryn, Order of the Phoenix
Formerly Sir Jaeger val'Holryn. Weilder of the Holy Avenger: Thonanos. Gave his soul to help free King Noen


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 Post subject: Re: About the val'Holryn Family
PostPosted: Fri Aug 09, 2019 12:40 pm 

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Well, I've basically dumped everything I know into this post, so if anyone would like to contribute, that would be great. There still is a whole lot that I don't know, as the val'Holryn are an all-around weird family. As such, I will continue to update this post as more information becomes available/Henry decides that I can spam Legend Lore in my downtime.

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With regards, signing out.


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Sigismund Jupiter val'Holryn von Tralia


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 Post subject: Re: About the val'Holryn Family
PostPosted: Thu Feb 06, 2020 8:42 pm 

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I thought I was done with the val'Holryn until the Walker Grey story arc began.

I was wrong.

For now, I am leaving the territory of written history and entering the realm of speculation and theory. As such, things will get a little bit wierd and heretical.

To start, Duke Simon and his eldest son (If anyone knows his name, please tell me). Both of them disappeared within a year of each other, and both times no one could confirm a body. As a fan of modern literature, if there isn't a body, they're not dead. Even if there is a body, they still probably aren't dead.

I believe the most plausible theory for Simon's disappearance was that he was harvested by, well, Harvesters. Simon was an Arcane Spellcaster (a publicly known one at that), and the description of the only witness states he was carried off by "a pair of winged devils". While the source is unreliable (an understatement) I don't believe the man was necessarily lying about the event. Sure, its implausible, but I believe there is a grain of truth in the man's words. Perhaps he will be key in searching for Walker Grey.

Next up is the Victor's elder brother, and first son of Simon. (I do not know his name, but if someone were to notify me, I would be happy to retroactively edit my previous notes.) His case is somewhat more complicated by the fact that his disappearance is even less documented that Simon's, due to the death of Victor, the late Duchess, his wife Evalina, and the disappearance of his son Castigir.

Sidetracking for a moment, Evalina's death is incredibly suspicions, even by Arcanis standards. She crashed Victor's coronation party, (drunk, I might add, which was highly out of character for her), accused him of murder, and reportedly committed suicide by jumping of the highest point of the castle. An investigation was launched that quickly got nowhere, and the case was closed. Just like that. No results were found into why she did it, and the whole thing remains a mystery. Even worse was her son Castigir, who disappeared when he reached adulthood and not a moment sooner. I theorize that he adopted his father's obsession with Simon's disappearance, but with 50 years and nothing to show, that seems unlikely.

Back to the original topic, much of the mystery of the Elder Brother's death/disappearance seems to be centered around the Brechau Incident, more widely know as the Heresy of Brechau. val'Holryn covers the topic more in depth in his "Letters from Ambassador Tukufu, page 2". TL;DR fight breaks outs with cultist, town is burnt down, and Victor finds his Elder Brother's signet ring on a charred skeleton, Elder Brother is pronounced dead and Victor is crowned Duke of Trailia, leading the the situation mentioned in the above paragraph. Now, we get some holes in the story: who did the cultists follow, were they even cultists, and how can we be sure that the Elder Brother even died. Running out of space, will continue in Part 2.

_________________
With regards, signing out.


------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sigismund Jupiter val'Holryn von Tralia


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 Post subject: Re: About the val'Holryn Family
PostPosted: Thu Feb 06, 2020 9:16 pm 

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Part 2 begins, and we start delving into Brechau. Before this incident, Brechau is not mentioned in any official records, reports, or other forms of history I have access to. Assumedly, this is the first Heresy-related incident, as otherwise it would be mentioned. Immediately, we start with the accusation of "cultists". I highly doubt this, and Brechau was a small town, and I can't see any significance in starting a cult base in rural, middle-of-nowhere Milandir. There's a chance that they actually were cultists, so I'll keep that theory on the table.

Next, is the Signet Ring "found" on the body of the Elder Brother. Now, by that point, the body was charcoal, so we can't confirm it was really his. Now, the signet ring does make it harder to disprove that he died. So now we have three alternatives:

1. It really was his ring, and he died.
2. He planted the ring on a body and faked his death.
3. Victor killed his older brother.

So, three theories with varying levels of spiciness.

Starting from the top: Eldest Brother really is dead. This means that case is closed, no foul play (other than cultists), and Victor assumes the throne legitimately. This is the most plausible case. . . and the one I refute the most. It's just all too convenient if you ask me. Eldest Brother went to a specific town that just so happened to have a cult, which also just so happened to stage an attack and just so happened to burn his corpse. If you ask me, its all to coincidental, and while theoretically possible, I just can't believe it. Sidenote: it's entirely possible that the "cultists" were indeed Harvesters. This would make the theory altogether more believable, but we don't have any records of him possessing The Gift. As such, merely a theory until more resources are thrown together and confirmation can be made.

Next, the signet ring was planted on a random corpse, and he faked his death. This is purely speculative, but its based off the fact that we can't confirm the body we found was actually his. He had avoided the responsibility of Duke for a year, so he had a reason to do it. The theory also doesn't explain why the town was burnt down, nor why there was a third party. As such, I'll put this on the backburner as "possible, but not entirely explained.

The third theory is much darker: Victor killed his older brother, and the "cultists" were simply a nice name for citizen casualties. Aside from the shock factor, it ties in Evalina's outburst during his coronation: There was enough bad blood between them that they were willing to kill each other, and Victor had a bigger army. Now, Victor was, reportedly, a law-abiding and honorable man, and there were no previous records of hatred between the two brothers, making it harder to justify. I just can't imagine a motivation for Victor to commit fratricide. As such, while plausible, I can't find enough evidence to support it.

TIME FOR A BONUS CONSPIRACY ROUND!

Simon had two sons: the Unnamed Eldest Son and Victor. Eldest Son disappears without a trace. Victor had two sons: Aeorin and Konrad. Aeorin disappeared at the climax of the Heretic Wars. Going by this logic, we can assume Simon had an Elder Brother. . . who also disappeared. All the elder brothers were part of the Order of The Phoenix. This, combined with parts of the binding ritual, make me wonder: was there perhaps a debt that needed to be payed? Was whatever they made oath with desire of Firstborn Sons? And if so, does the Order receive the Bonded Spirits through this devil's bargain, a necessary price for their power? Only time can tell. . . or Henry.

_________________
With regards, signing out.


------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sigismund Jupiter val'Holryn von Tralia


Last edited by vandom43 on Tue Feb 18, 2020 10:39 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: About the val'Holryn Family
PostPosted: Thu Feb 06, 2020 10:19 pm 

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Really quick: SPOILERS. I want to do a bit of theorizing on their origin, and will try to keep it spoiler free, but a few bits and pieces are inevitable to go by.

Moving away from the kidnappings, death, suicides, and disappearances (in that order). We move onto the origin of the val'Holryn Bloodline: That is to say, their unknown origin. We have three clues regarding this:

1. Status as an "outsider" family (if you know, you know).
2. Relationship with the Kio.
3. Their Gift of Mimicry.

Starting with the first one, it basically means that they have an origin like the val'Inares and one other particular family whose name I won't mention. That is to say, they weren't created with familiar methods. The val'Inares are, to avoid beating around the bush, snake-people. The other family. . . well, I can't go into detail, but but it should come to light here soon. Val'Ossan are a runner-up, but they have started turning into fish-people just yet, so we'll leave them alone. That leaves the val'Holryn in the same position.

Next, the relationship with the Kio. Often referred to as their "Little cousins", they have a lot of similarities: their code of honor, their curious interaction with bloodline powers, and their habit of adopting other races (i.e. Undir and Ss'ressen). Beyond that, they have almost no interaction, and Kio are banned from joining the Order of the Phoenix. Talk about akward family gatherings. Makes me wonder: should a Kio breed with a val'Holryn, would it be a val'Sungha mimicking val'Horlyn mimicking another Bloodline? A matryoshka doll's worth of conditions, to be certain. Or, perhaps, some new Bloodline Talents will be created. As of now, we don't know.

Finally, their gift of mimicry is curious. They can only mimic the Major 13 Bloodlines. . . and only them. So you can mimic the Abedi, Assante, Borda, Dellenov, Emman, Inares (I find it hilarious), Ishi, Mehan, Mordane, Ossan, Sheem, Tensen or Virdan. To this day either they can't manifest other Bloodlines or it's very, very rare. As in, rarer than that steak you got at Outback Steakhouse at 3:44 A.M on a Monday, when the chef was drunk on Russian Vodka. But why these 13 Bloodlines specifically? Why not the other 20+ original Bloodlines? Nierite has a few of his own theories, and I'll quote one of them (Musings of a Canadian Nierite, page 2), along with my own, more extreme theory.

1. The Antenna Theory.
2. The Degenerate Valinor Theory.

The Antenna Theory states that val'Holryn manifest Bloodline Powers proportional to the size of other families. This allows for the 13 Major Bloodlines to be the most common, and also allows for val'Holryn to manifest Minor Bloodlines very rarely. Extinct Bloodlines are taken out of the equation. I like this theory, but there are two problems: The Ul Families, and the fact we haven't seen any Minor Blood val'Holryn. Assuming that the val'Holryn don't have an Ul equivalent (assuming they don't, as we would probably know by now), this means that they ignore more that half of the Major living Bloodlines. Second, the game system disallows val'Holrym mimicking Minor Bloodlines. It also doesn't explain the Holryn-Kio connection. All three points are heavy blows to the theory, and essentially kill it unless some new information appears.

Second is much, much worse: The val'Holryn are descendants of Umor. This, for the most part, would be a revelation that could tear Milandir, perhaps even other nations, apart. We can also tie them into the Kio: Umor had non-Valinor servants, who were either Human, or of dubious Humanity. The Kio Sky Kingdoms of Yhriwhon were torn apart in a religious dispute by the Crescent Moon Cult, who's imagery of the blood-red crescent moon signified the apocalypse. Perhaps this radical group worshiped Umor, and explains the current Kio's disdain for religion. Additionally, during the God's War, many Valinor betrayed the Pantheon to serve Umor. After the war, at least 13 Valinor, or one very powerful Valinor who absorbed the power of others, survived to create the val'Holryn. This means that the Umoric Family Tree has two branches: Those descended from his Servant, and those descended from his Valinor. By combining these traits, we can speculate that Umor was at least a Wind God. This would explain the Holryn-Kio connection, the Kio's affinity for Wind, and the val'Holryns power of mimicry, respectively. It would also explain their status as an Outsider Family. If Umor was their progenitor, we could also guess that he's not an Entropic creature, seeing that neither groups can be identified as Entropic by Hunters of the Silence, or the fact that they don't go out drinking with Voiceless Ones every weekend. This is slightly better than the alternative of both groups infiltrating mortal society to tear it apart from the inside out. Still bad, but not as bad as it could be. Of course, if Umor is not Entropic, it means that he could potentially be bargained with, or wholly rejoin the Pantheon against the Silence. Theoretically, of course, and they still have the feud with the other families. I doubt both sides will be able to coexist if this theory is true.

All that done? No PCI death squads? No major spoilers? That went better than expected actually. Of course this is just a theory, and I might end up redacting some of it if people request it.

Don't want people to know the truth, after all.

_________________
With regards, signing out.


------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sigismund Jupiter val'Holryn von Tralia


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 Post subject: Re: About the val'Holryn Family
PostPosted: Fri Feb 07, 2020 9:16 am 
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Well... we come to the val'Holryn conspiracy theories. I love this stuff. Again, let me say that I am speaking as a player. Though I have paid more attention to this topic than any other, my thoughts only represent my own thinking. Not anything official by the campaign. Got your tin foil hats ready? Here we go down a rabbit hole...

The val'Holryn claim they don't know their own origins. And for most of the family that's probably true. But that the Ducal line and a "core group" doesn't know? To me that really doesn't pass the smell test ... because the val'Holryn (or rather the Duke and his inner circle) HAVE their mentagi (a powerful psionic artifact that holds the imprinted memories of their ancestors going back to the creation of the family). This is detailed in the fluff text of the Ssethregore Codex (of all places). As a player base we know that the recovery of the val'Emman Mentagi in an old 3rd Edition module (Sibling Rivalry) reintroduced them and their history to the world (and made them a playable family). IMHO there is currently NO plausible reason to assume the val'Holryn's mentagi is any less complete.

So I believe, as a player, that an inner circle of the val'Holryn DO know where they come from. And they have consciously chosen not to say. Which almost certainly means that the val'Holryn core believes that if the truth gets out, then they will somehow suffer as a result. The group that represents the inner elite of the val'Holryn seems to be the Phoenix Knights and my guess is that my so called Core is primarily made up of them and the various branches of the Ducal line(s).

[As an aside: The idea that there is a core of "true believers" hidden in a wider population is a theme that emerges multiple times in Arcanis. The Priestess of the Fire Dragon keep the secret that their God is actually Kassegoore. The Black Kur Ghi were hidden in the wider Kur Ghi during the Crusade mods. The Ardekene and especially the Life Wardens appear to be hiding secrets from the rest of the elorii... etc etc).]

So what's going on?

Most probably the val'Holryn are connected to the Other (who the elorii nicknamed Umor ... NOT its real name). The Other was powerful enough to to fight the entire pantheon of human gods including Anshar/Yig and "seduced" Valinor from the Gods to its side. From these turncoat Valinor and the stolen energy of the Gods would come a Bloodline that turns up individuals with multiple sets of Bloodline powers. The would certainly be a very good reason to clam up about your origins. "Hey we're the surviving scions of the Other" probably jumps you to the top of the list for the next Arcanis pogrom. Even the val'Emman and val'Virdan probably put aside their differences long enough to kill you first...

If you believe some variation that the Other is connected to Kassegore [see For the Lesser Gods] and that Kassegore is connected to the Creator of the Universe [see the Codex: ssethregore] then some other things come into focus as well.

For example ... the Kio believe that there was a Creator, who passed in the act of making the Universe (the Mother Church also accepts this view). The Kio further believe that the Creator created all their souls for the duration of the universe. And as they live and die, life by life, that energy goes back to the Creator who will be reborn from this energy at the end of the Universe, and that HE/SHE/IT will then recreate a new Universe in a potentially endless cycle. The Mother Church is silent on this second point, but instead says in the alternative that the followers of the Pantheon of Man draw their souls from the Cauldron and mostly return to it when they die.

If the Other is the Creator then both the Kio and the val'Holryn are connected to the same origin "source" ... however distantly (hence the moniker little cousins). This would also strongly suggest that the souls summoned into the Hounds that serve the Knights of the Phoenix are drawn from the reserve of souls left over from Creation aka the same pool of souls/energy that the kio come from (hence why the val'Holryn won't EVER let a Kio into the Knighthood). This would also explain why the secret passages hidden in Blessed Lands Book, (in cypher) also show that some of the val'Cessari are worried that the val'Holryn family are in cahoots with the people in Obsidean Masks...who sometimes go to the Black Moon and are connected with the Other.

By the way if this is all true then it's also an awfully big coincidence that the Black Talons (who follow Kassegore...aka the Creator...aka the Other) just happen to make to the borders of Tralia. And perhaps changes the story somewhat that an especially understanding who Duke doesn't freak out about the carnivorous lizard folk who are his new neighbors. Instead perhaps we should think that despite the differences between scales and soft skin that new "little cousins" meet for the first time.

That's what I think is going on. As a player.

_________________
Eric Gorman

AKA Ambassador Tukufu, man of letters, tomb raider and Master Sword Sage
. . . and Sir Szymon val'Holryn, Order of the Phoenix
Formerly Sir Jaeger val'Holryn. Weilder of the Holy Avenger: Thonanos. Gave his soul to help free King Noen


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 Post subject: Re: About the val'Holryn Family
PostPosted: Sat Mar 21, 2020 2:00 pm 

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Well, after the Q&A we had, I have a little bit to write about. First of all: the val'Holryn are not an original family. While this does mean I won't be able to loot any mansions or villas in the First City by right of birth, it does mean I don't need to buy a salvage license. Anyway, with that aside, time to predict when the family was created.

We know they had to be born after -3720 I.C, which is when the Original Families were created at the order of the Gods. Around 500 years after, from -3263 to -3258 I.C, the Blood War occurred. I would put this at the absolute earliest that the val'Holryn could have come into existence. It would be an excellent time as well, with many families being exterminated, so it means plenty of land for the taking. Hell, I would guess that all the Val Families possess land that wasn't their originally.

The first written record of the val'Holryn was written in -1778 I.C, during the Theocracy of The Cleansing Flame, about 1485 years after the Blood War. At this point, they already ruled Tralia, and enough of an army to fight a guerrilla war against Leonydas val'Virdan.

So we now have a range of dates that we could look at. We have the War of Empires, the Massacre of Erbo River, the Reign of Perfection. . . We have plenty to look at. Unfortunately, record from this period of time are scarce, and no mention of the family is made. Since the were a Minor Family at the time, it can be assumed that they had no holdings in the First City, so all we have left to look at is Old Tralia. Which was destroyed by the Sword of Heavan, and now all that's left is empty fields and piles of stone not worth stealing. Great. Of course, we have two more routes we can take to learn the families age: the Mentagi and the Standard.

A Mentagi is a psionic artifact that has the imprinted memories of the family installed inside, like a computer that downloads memories from volunteers. We haven't seen the Mentagi yet, and it is probably very closely guarded by the the family and used only by the elders. So scratch that. Next would be the Legion Standard, a magic item held by the armies of the Imperium and the Coryani.

Legion Standards are marked with numerals based on when they were founded. So the Legio Lex Talonis, which was the fourth Legion founded, would be marked IV. So, we would only need to look at the legions formed before and after the LoTRP to guess when they were founded. However, the Standard of The Rising Phoenix is currently being held on Ymandragore, a reward of the Childrens' Crusade when Palic val'Holryn took half the Legion and the Standard to fight the Sorcerer King directly. That didn't end well, so now the Harvesters own it. Unless the Sorcerer King is diplomatic enough to make a trade, we'll probably need to steal it back from them.

Side note: legally, rules as written, if the Standard of The Rising Phoenix were to be reclaimed by the Coryani, and they were to assemble 1000 men, it would technically become a legion. Not only would this be a great insult to the Duke of Tralia, it would be hilarious to see.

_________________
With regards, signing out.


------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sigismund Jupiter val'Holryn von Tralia


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