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 Post subject: Firearm Firing modes + Common Combat Maneuvers
PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 12:52 pm 

Joined: Mon Dec 18, 2017 2:49 am
Posts: 9
Can you combine a Firearm Special Maneuver Firing Mode with a Common Combat Maneuver or is it one or the other.

Example. I am going to execute a Headshot with a Devastating Attack? A Devastating Attack can be a Ranged Attack. Another example is using Burst with Team Attack.

Thanks,
Barry


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 Post subject: Re: Firearm Firing modes + Common Combat Maneuvers
PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 7:01 pm 
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Joined: Wed Nov 06, 2013 7:06 am
Posts: 853
Headshot and Devastating Attack are exclusive due to Stacking rules and a tiny little issue on pg.90 under "Speed". Both provide +6 damage from a Combat Manoeuvre.

Other combinations also don't work at base, as you are only allowed 1 Demanding or Complex Action + 1 Simple Action + 1 Trivial Action.

However, there are two caveats.
1. As EiC, remove the restriction on "+Simple Manoeuvres can only be combined with a Basic Attack". Its a non-sensible restriction in a heroic system. This opens up Headshot to be combined with Team Attack or Burst Fire/Double Tap.
2. The heroes use Celerity to change the Speed of various Manoeuvres. This also requires the Hero (with EiC approval) be allowed to combine everything into a single attack roll.
eg1. Burst (Demanding) + Team Attack (Celerity down to a Simple) + Headshot (Celerity down to a Trivial) = 7 ticks of damage fun... at -9 on the Attack Roll, and 10 Burnout.
eg2. Devastating Attack (Demanding) + Team Attack (Celerity down to a Simple) = 6 ticks of splattering fun... at only -6 on the attack roll and 5 Burnout.

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LARG; Astra Tonsoria Ursula val¤Dellanov, Martial Former Tribune, Sword Sage II, T2.4
LA:5E; Barbara Duran-Dellanov, Former Tribune, Fighter 1
LRC:OP; Seraphina "Flowerchild" Amakiir, Skill Hero


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 Post subject: Re: Firearm Firing modes + Common Combat Maneuvers
PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 1:12 am 

Joined: Mon Feb 12, 2018 8:49 pm
Posts: 47
Per the pg. 90 description of combat maneuvers, "A Hero may only perform a single combat maneuver at a time."

Given that, I think Headshot and Devastating Attack are meant to be one or the other. Headshot looks like it's intended to be the "firearms" version of a Devastating Attack, and it's flexibility (+simple) is to give the shooter the flexibility to use different firing modes for Headshots.

Furthermore, the "Weapons" section of the Devastating Attack description states that Devastating Attack may only be performed with "any melee weapons, unarmed, energy blast powers, or archaic ranged weapons (such as bows)." Firearms are not on the list, so it sounds like Devastating Attack and firearm firing modes (Headshot included) are meant to be mutually exclusive.

Team Attack is the one I have trouble with. Team Attack doesn't explicitly state what it combines with. Since the speed of Team Attack is "Demanding," it is its own combat maneuver, but it clearly allows the Hero to make an attack of some kind, and the restrictions on what kind of attack it can be are not stated.

I'd be interested to see a ruling on what Team Attack does and doesn't allow for attacks.


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 Post subject: Re: Firearm Firing modes + Common Combat Maneuvers
PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 9:54 pm 

Joined: Fri Dec 13, 2013 5:44 pm
Posts: 142
Location: Cajun Country
To expand on what Rotten Capering said, when they say ranged for combat maneuvers they mean using the ranged skill. So the list of weapons it adds is for clarity but other maneuvers would use the same, and potentially thrown weapons like grenades if applicable.


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 Post subject: Re: Firearm Firing modes + Common Combat Maneuvers
PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 10:43 pm 

Joined: Mon Dec 18, 2017 2:49 am
Posts: 9
Thanks everyone. Good refresher of the rules (which I read back in early December and we are just getting up and running). For me the clarifying point is the speed and combinations (1 Simple + Complex or Demanding). I like the house rule of allowing simple actions to be combined with actions other than Basic.

The situation on Team Attack was discussed at quite length revolving around whether the rules made sense... why can't I do anything other than a basic attack on a Team Attack. Thinking through the above, I am thinking a Team Attack should be a +Simple action vs Demanding. Then it can be used with a Basic attack or if allowed by the EIC other attacks.

Having only three sessions under our belts I am unsure what the downside would be.


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 Post subject: Re: Firearm Firing modes + Common Combat Maneuvers
PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 10:46 pm 
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I don't see any issues with that as a house rule for Team Attack. Most of the manoeuvres have a negative modifier to hit, so it becomes risk vs reward (-6 to hit is a BIG modifier in the mechanics).

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LARG; Astra Tonsoria Ursula val¤Dellanov, Martial Former Tribune, Sword Sage II, T2.4
LA:5E; Barbara Duran-Dellanov, Former Tribune, Fighter 1
LRC:OP; Seraphina "Flowerchild" Amakiir, Skill Hero


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 Post subject: Re: Firearm Firing modes + Common Combat Maneuvers
PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 11:52 pm 

Joined: Mon Feb 12, 2018 8:49 pm
Posts: 47
I kind of feel like Heroes should have some kind of tradeoff for the effort of coordinating an attack with other people (ala Team Attack), so it should maybe prohibit things like Devastating Attacks or finessed things like Guarded Attack, but it's entirely possible that I'm just overthinking it. Maybe it doesn't really matter.


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