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 Post subject: Bestial Transform and Emulated vs Normal Enhanced Attributes
PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 2:18 am 

Joined: Mon Feb 12, 2018 8:49 pm
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If a character is built with Enhanced Might and Enhanced Quickness, but also has Bestial Transformation, what does that mean for the Bestial Transformation power exploit that reads, "Emulated Powers: You may learn both Enhanced Attribute (Quickness), and Enhanced Attribute (Might) but these are restricted to use in your animal or hybrid form."

Does the pre-existing Enhanced Attributes mean that the Emulated versions are simply moot and do not apply?

Alternatively, does it mean that such a character can have two sets of Enhanced Attributes - one set that applies in animal form and one set that applies the rest of the time?


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 Post subject: Re: Bestial Transform and Emulated vs Normal Enhanced Attrib
PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 5:59 pm 
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This one has come up before:
viewtopic.php?f=24&t=2288

Stacking rules apply.

The advantage is low-level vs high-level Power Ranks. Bestial Transformation 16 (if your game gets that high) emulates at 8 Ranks. This would then be better than having Enhanced Attribute 5 (a fairly easy buy for a starting Hero).

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 Post subject: Re: Bestial Transform and Emulated vs Normal Enhanced Attrib
PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 2:26 am 

Joined: Mon Feb 12, 2018 8:49 pm
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The previous thread at that link didn't really address the question.

The basic issue is this. I'm not certain it's legal to purchase the exact same power multiple times unless the description of the power says so. Thus, it is legal to buy multiple iterations of Mimic, because the Mimic description says so, whereas it is presumably not legal to buy multiple iterations of Adoptive Muscle Memory - or multiple iterations of Enhanced Attribute for the same Attribute.

So, to rephrase my question: Is it legal for a Hero who already has Enhanced Might to subsequently emulate a second version of Enhanced Might through his Bestial Transformation power? Or is that a loophole that isn't meant to exist?


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 Post subject: Re: Bestial Transform and Emulated vs Normal Enhanced Attrib
PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 5:51 pm 
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Purchased and Emulated are not the same. In this case, if the Hero is planning to Emulate, why bother buying the Power separately in the first place? Its a waste of those Character Creation discounts on starting Powers.

Later in the game, it is possible to make an Emulated Power separate; this is actually bad to attempt in many cases, as it retains all the Flaws of the parent Power AND you can never access its Emulated Power or Power Tricks. Not a particular burden for Enhanced Attribute.

Rotted Capes is set up so that the EiC can rule anything they like. Speak to the EiC for a final ruling.

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LA:5E; Barbara Duran-Dellanov, Former Tribune, Fighter 1
LRC:OP; Seraphina "Flowerchild" Amakiir, Skill Hero


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 Post subject: Re: Bestial Transform and Emulated vs Normal Enhanced Attrib
PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 10:48 pm 

Joined: Mon Feb 12, 2018 8:49 pm
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Agreed, Purchased and Emulated are not the same.
Agreed, the EIC always has interpretive freedom, veto power, override authority, and all other such powers.

The question of "why bother?" depends on circumstances. For example:

One could conceivably build a Hero with a great many limitations and constraints on a power in order to boost its rank level, and then use an emulation of the same power to try to sneak around all those limitations.

Or one could envision having the Hero's power Nullified and trying to circumvent it by emulating the exact same power off of something else.

Consider the Element/Energy Blast (Kinetic) power. That thing could be emulated from a huge variety of other things. Namely: Element/Energy Manipulation (Kinetic), Energy Generation (Kinetic), Energy Sheath (Kinetic), Force Field, and Move Object.

So a Hero with all six of those powers could conceivably have six different iterations of the exact same Element/Energy Blast, for a power that isn't purchasable in multiples.

And so, I'm wondering if that kind of emulation overlap/redundancy is intended to work that way, or if that kind of thing is more of an exploit/hack of the rules. If a Hero has all six of the above powers, are we supposed to be able to Nullify his Element/Energy Blast (Kinetic)? Or is he supposed to be essentially immune to that via emulation?

My concern is that it's a more of a gameable loophole than an intended feature.


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 Post subject: Re: Bestial Transform and Emulated vs Normal Enhanced Attrib
PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 11:51 am 
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Rotten Capering wrote:
And so, I'm wondering if that kind of emulation overlap/redundancy is intended to work that way, or if that kind of thing is more of an exploit/hack of the rules. If a Hero has all six of the above powers, are we supposed to be able to Nullify his Element/Energy Blast (Kinetic)? Or is he supposed to be essentially immune to that via emulation?



I think you are misunderstanding what emulation is, it's a complex power trick... an emulated power is limited by all the limitations upon the base power..

you are using the base power to emulate another power.

you get the master power Nullifyed all the emulated powers get Nullfied with it.

Justice (From the Avengers and New Warriors) can fly, create force fields, and even power punch people.. all with his TK.. you nullify his TK.. all his "emulated powers" are no longer accessible to him.

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 Post subject: Re: Bestial Transform and Emulated vs Normal Enhanced Attrib
PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 8:50 pm 

Joined: Mon Feb 12, 2018 8:49 pm
Posts: 50
That's an interesting and useful observation about Nullifying a base power also blocking all of the emulated and derived powers, too.

My question, though, was different.

Let's pretend Justice (From the Avengers and New Warriors), in addition to the Telekinesis described, ALSO had the separate ability to fly (perhaps due to the yellow sun instead of a red one - who knows). If someone Nullified this separate ability to fly, does Justice say, "Drat! Now I'm stuck on the ground!" and stay stuck on the ground, or does he say, "Hahaha! Too bad I can get the same effect by emulating off of my TK, loser!" and fly away?

Similarly, perhaps his yellow-sun flight power is limited such that it only works if he's eaten pizza regularly. Can he use an emulation off of TK to circumvent that limitation?

Basically, is a character supposed to be able to emulate a power that s/he has already purchased straight-up?


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 Post subject: Re: Bestial Transform and Emulated vs Normal Enhanced Attrib
PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 10:35 pm 
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I don’t see why not. It’s potentially very redundant and will often seem to be a waste of build points. But then again you get to laugh on those rare yellow sun/no pizza days and keep flying...

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 Post subject: Re: Bestial Transform and Emulated vs Normal Enhanced Attrib
PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 11:10 pm 
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Up to the EiC. As Emulation requires expenditure of a Plot Point, they can just say 'no'.

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LA:5E; Barbara Duran-Dellanov, Former Tribune, Fighter 1
LRC:OP; Seraphina "Flowerchild" Amakiir, Skill Hero


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