Paradigm Concepts

Pace of Advancement
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Author:  DeadZone [ Mon Dec 23, 2013 3:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Pace of Advancement

So, it's definitely too early to jump to any conclusions. But I did want to ask about the pace of advancement in the Revelations campaign. Essentially, what is the typical expected maximum SP for a one-round adventure?

With that being asked, I'll elaborate on the question. In the old campaign, Intro adventures gave 3 (or maybe 4) SP max. Normal adventures gave 5 SP max. Now, I don't know what the "normal" is going to be for Revelations adventurers. But I'm looking at the advancement costs. And I see that buying a Talent costs 50, 75 or 100 SPs. Using the old campaign as a guideline, that would take 10, 15 or 20 adventures, just to buy a Talent. (In the old campaign, a character could generally buy a Basic Talent after each adventure.) Now, I'm not saying that we should be able to advance *that* fast. But having to wait 3 adventures just to increase a background skill from a 2 to a 3 seems like players would feel rather stagnant very quickly.

To throw one more example out there for the sake of perspective... It takes 600 SP to be considered Rank 3 in your order. Characters start with 300 at the Heroic campaign level (which Revelation is.) That means it will take 300 more SP to be at the highest level of one's order. In that time, if adventures are still maxing out at 5 SP, it will take a minimum of 60 adventures. That sounds pretty balanced to me. I'm not objecting to that. However in that time, for 300 SP, a hero is not going to gain a significant number of skills and talents. One Heroic talent is 100 SP. (Plus it requires at least one Greater talent which some will have after character creation and others will need to buy at 75 SP.) Learn 2 new skills and advance them both to 3 ranks... 120 SP.

In general, it will take multiple adventures just to increase a skill that you're already trained in, to the next rank. I'm concerned about the potentially slow pace being a hindrance to players' enjoyment. We all know that human beings like to received rewards for their efforts. That's why things like MMORPGs have become so popular... they play on those feelings by offering frequent incremental rewards for your characters. (As opposed to fewer large advancements.) It hooks people in and brings them back. If those rewards came significantly less often, I doubt that the game in question would be a success.

Anyway, as I said before, I hope that I'm worried about nothing. But I wanted to voice my concern early in the campaign rather than later, where it might actually be a problem.


Author:  CBlome [ Mon Dec 23, 2013 4:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pace of Advancement

I'm currently of the idea that every adventure should give around 10 SP. SOme adventures will have the opportunity to earn more, while a table may miss an opportunity for a few of those points. This means that each 'tier' of play is roughly 15 modules to get through.

Author:  PCIHenry [ Mon Dec 23, 2013 4:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pace of Advancement


I don't know what Clint has planned, and I'll leave that to him to decide, but I have to point out that we can't model ourselves after the MMORPG experience. The way I see it, this is not a race to max out skills, or get more talents - its the enjoyment of the story being told.

I'm sure many would hate to play in my home games, where I forget to give experience points for many games at a time (as I just don't see it of great importance), instead just focusing on the story being told. As long as the Threats keep pace with the capabilities of the players, I just don't see it as that much of an issue.

But that's my two cents. As I said, Clint has final say on this.

Author:  DeadZone [ Mon Dec 23, 2013 4:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pace of Advancement

I apologize if I gave the impression that an MMORPG-style or reward was what I was looking for. That's not it at all. I was just using that style as an example of playing to human nature by offering multiple incremental rewards. No, my concern was that the level of rewards might be so sparse as to discourage repeat play. (I've only played two of the adventures that are out so far, and I believe that they both max out at 5 SP. But then again, I also think that those were introductory adventures.) So, when comparing the rewards that I've seen so far to the changes in advancement costs, I was concerned that the pace might be too slow. Seeing that Clint plans to set 10 SP as an approximate target for an adventure eases that concern.

Thanks to both of you for the replies.


Author:  Blusponge [ Mon Dec 23, 2013 5:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pace of Advancement

Should point out that 1st Ed recommended 5+ SP per session while 2nd Ed recommends 10-15 points per session. So I would expect the Revelations rewards to have a similar bump.


Author:  CBlome [ Mon Dec 23, 2013 5:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pace of Advancement


There will also be an updated Adventure Journal for those who played those as they written with awards before we made a major change in the final version of the new edition.

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