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 Post subject: Re: SP revisions for year 2 rounds
PostPosted: Tue Apr 28, 2015 11:19 am 
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Location: Dallas, TX
Henry,

You guys have been doing the Organized Play thing for a long time. So I feel a little silly trying to argue the whole story vs. advancement angle with you. Yes, WH hits a different niche than most flavors of DnD/d20. Adventures aren't about amassing wealth or magical treasure. And peeling back the onion layers of deepening mysteries and being part of that shared experience is worthwhile. But I still see character advancement as the carrot that supports repeat play. Flattening the power curve doesn't change that really. WH is still built around a framework where advancement is necessary to use more powerful abilities and take on stronger foes.

Slow progression is fine, especially with OP. You want to maximize the playability of available rounds. You don't want a handful of dedicated but regionally fortunate players obnoxiously demanding rounds to challenge them and draining your resources for lower and intermediary rounds. But lets face it. Under the current WHR guidelines, a player will never be able to do more than increase skills (which run right smack into the hard cap applied by his or her ability scores) or maybe a Basic Talent or Rite (if you can't think of anything else to do with your character over the course of 10 rounds—a year of play). The game just isn't built (IMHO) to create a static character out of the box. Too many options, too many restrictions, and too many hard caps.

Story aside, character advancement creates a sense of investment in the game. Yes, I as a player I can appreciate being part of a good story. But that investment only goes so far. The tangible rewards for being part of that store have limited forms, and advancement is the biggest among those. I'm just not convinced you can build a long term audience without it.

But if the story isn't there, the players aren't going to keep coming back regardless of how awesome their characters are. I won't argue that one bit.

One last thing: the last thing I'm suggesting is for WHR to shift gears to a rapid advancement model. I just think the current SP/Advancement model used is worthless. Players would be better served if advancements were hardwired into AJ. Example: Once you have played through all the year's Hard Point rounds, your AJ directs you to raise one Ability or choose a new Talent. THAT would serve both ends, would it not?

Tom

edit: course, the absence of any other opinion on this matter might indicate just how off base I am. Until then I remain the lone voice in the wilderness. ;)

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 Post subject: Re: SP revisions for year 2 rounds
PostPosted: Tue Apr 28, 2015 11:40 am 
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I share many opinions with the sponge of blue :)

I am enjoying the story and Blood Moon over the Seine was by far the most intense and fun module so far (For less than obvious reasons for my *cough werewolf* character)....that said, there are things I see my character being able to do down the road to 'grow' both in personality and mechanically, that might never occur if the progression is such that I can never afford a higher tier Talent, etc.

I think a good progression is roughly about 25% advancement of character mechanically, 50% advancement of the story, and 25% advancement of the character's personality (non-mechanics). There needs to be tangible, visible changes to the character's mechanics as the game progresses, or I too fear that the player base may taper off. I for one don't want to play a static character having the exact same abilities 2 years in as I did when the game began. I also don't feel I want to rush to the end of the game either, so a nice balance will be necessary.

John

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 Post subject: Re: SP revisions for year 2 rounds
PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2015 8:35 am 

Joined: Thu Oct 03, 2013 10:48 pm
Posts: 56
For me, one big disadvantage with the slow advancement in the campaign is that players who are better at character creation will have more mechanically effective characters for the whole campaign. If you are good at planning ahead (go for high ability scores, load up on non-background skills), you'll be able to make a character that is strictly better from a mechanical perspective. Those differences would normally even out a little as everyone gets more SP. Because so few SP are handed out, it remains pretty obvious.

It's also rough to look at a cool heroic talent (or heaven forbid, a heroic fighting style), and know that you'd have to play for two or three real years to earn enough SP to purchase it.


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 Post subject: Re: SP revisions for year 2 rounds
PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2015 12:12 am 
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Hmmm...after two months I thought there would have been of a conversation about this. Anyway, I've offered up my thought on the matter on my blog. It's nice to be able to break it all down in tables. I really hope I'm not the last word on this.

Tom

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 Post subject: Re: SP revisions for year 2 rounds
PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2015 7:48 am 

Joined: Tue Jul 01, 2014 1:31 pm
Posts: 15
I totally agree with you Tom. Skill points are awarded way too little :cry: I am in your campaign and after playing a few games I can better understand, and agree, with your argument. I can not see the point of having to play 15+ games in order to gain a talent. Most campaigns will not even last that many episodes :!:

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 Post subject: Re: SP revisions for year 2 rounds
PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2015 2:22 pm 
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Of course, after all that, I see that the rewards for Genesis Stone are higher than the previous 3 adventures. So maybe this isn't as big an issue as I suspected. And while I stand by the recommendations in the article, some variation by scenario isn't a bad thing.

Course, it would have been helpful if someone had said something earlier. :P

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