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 Post subject: Church Factions
PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2016 8:36 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 03, 2015 2:29 pm
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has anyone came up with a short summary of how each religous faction views the other factions. In the Old World of Darkness games at the end of each "Clan" they gave what the clans views on each of the other "Clans" was. since i am not familiar enough with the game and definitly not religions, i thought I would ask instead of trying to duplicate someone else hard work. For example what would a Catholic think of a Puritan. And by that same token what does each of the Orders of Solomon think of each of the other orders. I was thinking of a short phrase or sentence or two. one thing i noticed at the game i played witch hunter at i had no idea what each of the factions thought of the other. I know in the books is a sort of brief and very broad sentence or two such as "the other orders of solomon think this about this order. if this has already been done can you point me in the right direction. thanks in advance for any ideas or help


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 Post subject: Re: Church Factions
PostPosted: Sat Apr 23, 2016 10:32 pm 
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heathd666 wrote:
has anyone came up with a short summary of how each religous faction views the other factions. In the Old World of Darkness games at the end of each "Clan" they gave what the clans views on each of the other "Clans" was. since i am not familiar enough with the game and definitly not religions, i thought I would ask instead of trying to duplicate someone else hard work. For example what would a Catholic think of a Puritan.


A lot of this, from my understanding, has more to do with regional biases than sectarian animosity. There is also a LOT of politics wrapped up in this. It isn't so much about Catholics looking at Protestants like unwashed heathens, but the threatened loss of influence and wealth the growth of these movement pose. And then there are the French Huguenots, which no one – not even the HRE – wants.

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And by that same token what does each of the Orders of Solomon think of each of the other orders. I was thinking of a short phrase or sentence or two. one thing i noticed at the game i played witch hunter at i had no idea what each of the factions thought of the other. I know in the books is a sort of brief and very broad sentence or two such as "the other orders of solomon think this about this order. if this has already been done can you point me in the right direction. thanks in advance for any ideas or help.


The only two major Orders that have EXPLICIT animosity between them are the Ashen Cross and the Crusaders Inviolate. Not that any of them fully trust the other. But the Accords are some 24 years old at this point, so its safe to assume most of the Orders have founded decent working relationships with one another. But no, I don't believe these relationships have been spelled out this way in any of source material. I think it would be a fantastic addition to an Orders of Solomon update. For that matter, it would be interesting to know how the different Forbidden Societies feel about one another, too.

Another detail I've stumbled across recently that would be nice to see drawn out has to do with the Court of Whispers. I believe it is described as one of several "neutral grounds" where the various Orders can assemble that have popped up across Europe and the New World since the signing of the Accords. While it would be simple enough to draw up my own list, it would be great to see a partial list of similar OFFICIAL locations throughout the world.

Tom

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 Post subject: Re: Church Factions
PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2016 10:11 am 

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So here are the religious orders I could find some are parts of others and such but evidently religious orders are highly perceptive upon the individual so I listed some that would be possible for the 1690s and where some could be found.

Anglican (Church of England) – England, Americas, Ireland

Aztecs -

Baptist -

Buddhist -

Catholic – I.E. Dominicans, Carmelites, Franciscans (Dominicans were Blackfriars, Carmelites were Whitefriars, Franciscans were Greyfriars).

Christian -

Calvanist -

Great Spirit - (Shamanism, Animalism) Americas

Islamic -

Jehovah's Witnesses -

Jesuits -

Judaism -

Lutheran -

Methodist -

Orthodox (Russian) -

Protestant - Northern Europe, with territories in Germany, Scandinavia, England, Scotland, and areas of France, the Low Countries, Switzerland, Kingdom of Hungary and Poland

Puritan -

Quakers -

Santos Novos (The New Saints of Brasil)


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 Post subject: Re: Church Factions
PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2016 2:41 pm 
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Wow! I already see the problem here. What you almost need is a table like the Racial Preferences out of the 1st ed AD&D PHB. As much as I like the idea, I see this quickly getting bogged down in a morass. Doing a paragraph for each one of these describing their impressions of the others could eat up an entire book. Might be worthwhile as a PDF. I think it would be easier to go with what each of the Orders thinks about the rest, which I do think would be a worthwhile addition to an OoS update.

Tom

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 Post subject: Re: Church Factions
PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2016 10:55 pm 
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In Europe the historical shorthand would probably be that there is a cold peace between the Roman Catholic Church and the major branches of Protestantism: Lutherans (and derivatives) & Calvanists. Both sides think the members of the other are going to Hell, but have given up trying to fix the problem with sword and shot. This situation essentially flows from the aftermath of fighting during the Reformation & the Counter Reformation and the the Peace of Westphalia, which wrapped up the 30 Years War. In the aftermath each sovereign was recognized as having the right to choose his own religion, which then became the official religion of their state. You could be persecuted for living somewhere and being out of step with your sovereign.

Historically minor branches of Protestantism (like the Annabaptists) were left out of the Peace Process and their followers were potentially persecuted by both sides everywhere, as often were Jews and the odd person whose beliefs were more exotic.

The divide between the Roman Catholic Church and the Orthodox Church was not as fraught as I understand it. Though I know the difference in religion was a factor in the several wars that took place between Poland and Russia in the 1600s.

In the New World I believe there was generally more tolerance since so many fled to avoid persecution back home. However Rhode Island is essentially formed following a religious argument in the Massachsetts Bay Colony...so it's not all one big happy family either.

From the perspective of the game I think it's safe to say your witch hunter faces suspicion any time it's clear that they are "out of step" religiously with the local population. This can intersect with nationality. An Italian would probably be assumed to be Catholic. That might cause problems when in Protestant England. Your Witch Hunter probably also face at least some hostility if you are badly out of step with the locals (Budhist?!?) or there are reasons why the locals are "stirred up" and looking to lash out.

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 Post subject: Re: Church Factions
PostPosted: Sat Nov 12, 2016 10:39 pm 

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Something important to remember when considering religion in this time period, you can't separate politics from how others respond to your faith. Catholics from France didn't exactly get along with Catholics from Spain. Differences between Catholics and Angelicans are more about politics than theology. Thus a general reaction is kinda hard to do since in this time frame politics and faith were deeply intertwined and even those who shared a faith could be divided based on politics.


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 Post subject: Re: Church Factions
PostPosted: Sun Nov 13, 2016 2:26 am 
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Yes, yes & yes to what Dace said.

And yet, at the same time religion will be "A" big factor in political alignment (Catholic Scotland will get help from both Spain & France) even though it is not "The" big factor.

And also local allegiances remain a potent force. In the 17C the idea of nation states is rising but the average person still probably thinks of their town or city first. Less a Englishman than a man from York (or Oxford or London or Liverpool).

If that sounds like a confusing mess ... yes it was. To the people of the time as well as modern readers looking backwards.

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. . . and Sir Szymon val'Holryn, Order of the Phoenix
Formerly Sir Jaeger val'Holryn. Weilder of the Holy Avenger: Thonanos. Gave his soul to help free King Noen


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