Last visit was: It is currently Sat Nov 25, 2017 2:26 am


All times are UTC - 5 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 5 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: New tweaks for a new year...
PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2016 10:14 am 
User avatar

Joined: Fri Sep 27, 2013 8:25 am
Posts: 573
Location: Dallas, TX
Hey all,

With the campaign shifting gears a bit this year, there are a couple of house rules I've been pondering for a while that I might just impliment as an experiment.

Weapon Complexity: rather than a constant penalty against your skill, weapon complexity affects your initiative roll.

Weapon Damage: bonus successes from your attack roll immediately convert to damage, not bonus damage dice. So if you rolled 2 bonus successes on your attack roll, your weapon damage would be 2 plus whatever you roll from your damage pool (DM+Ability). This is to adjust what I feel is a bit of a whiff factor when it comes to damage in WH.

Thoughts?

Tom

_________________
...and a Brace of Pistols
a blog dedicated to swashbuckling, fantasy and horror gaming

Witch Hunter: The Invisible World Unofficial Home on Google+


Top
Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: New tweaks for a new year...
PostPosted: Sat Jan 23, 2016 9:17 am 

Joined: Thu Oct 03, 2013 10:48 pm
Posts: 56
Both changes make combat more lethal.

The first one definitely favors the PCs, since most GMs won't get fiddly enough to increase the attack pool for their lieutenants and villains. It does help to make heavy weapons more attractive - I've found that going for "finesse" style weapons which allow me to improve my offensive and defensive capabilities with a single stat are much more cost-effective in the long run. I'd give it a try and see what effects it might have.

The second change favors whomever tends to have more dice. If a GM favors using minions who group up, then dice pools can get pretty large (don't forget Tactical Edge!). This makes improving defenses much more important to prevent an early wound penalty death spiral, especially if the lieutenant/villain is behind a row of weaker enemies that the PCs have to kill in order to reach him or her. I'd hesitate before implementing this one, just because it strongly encourages players to increase Agility and Toughness to survive combat. There's already enough things to encourage focus on combat; I don't think I'd want to add to them.

Alternatively, if this rule explicitly does not apply to minions, then it will favor the PCs (since there are usually more PCs than lieutenants and villains). It makes the lieutenants and villains scarier, but also means that the PCs will take them down more quickly. How about a compromise - you can choose to have any 10s that you roll on an attack roll convert directly to damage (as long as you hit the target in the first place), but then they do not explode.


Top
Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: New tweaks for a new year...
PostPosted: Sat Jan 23, 2016 10:13 am 

Joined: Fri Sep 27, 2013 12:48 pm
Posts: 212
I would test these carefully, the damage tracks are smaller in 2nd Edition, and these may have characters drop much more quickly


Top
Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: New tweaks for a new year...
PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2016 3:44 pm 
User avatar

Joined: Fri Sep 27, 2013 8:25 am
Posts: 573
Location: Dallas, TX
Thanks for the feedback, guys. Really appreciate it.

HeridFel wrote:
The first one definitely favors the PCs, since most GMs won't get fiddly enough to increase the attack pool for their lieutenants and villains. It does help to make heavy weapons more attractive - I've found that going for "finesse" style weapons which allow me to improve my offensive and defensive capabilities with a single stat are much more cost-effective in the long run. I'd give it a try and see what effects it might have.


My plan here wasn't so much to make heavy weapons more attractive, but to make weapon tricks and stunts more attractive. As it stands, even when specialized in a weapon, complexity added to wagers make it pretty tough to be a hero. In the years since we started playing, my players really haven't experimented much with tricks and part of the reason is the penalties really start to outweigh the benefits very quickly.

The other reason I'm inclined to do this is it gets rid of the whole "ignore complexity versus minions" bit. Since we play online, those sorts of circumstantial rules are a real PITA to apply.

Favoring the players isn't a terrible thing since its relatively easy to adjust the Health Tracks of adversaries to compensate.

Quote:
The second change favors whomever tends to have more dice. If a GM favors using minions who group up, then dice pools can get pretty large (don't forget Tactical Edge!). This makes improving defenses much more important to prevent an early wound penalty death spiral, especially if the lieutenant/villain is behind a row of weaker enemies that the PCs have to kill in order to reach him or her. I'd hesitate before implementing this one, just because it strongly encourages players to increase Agility and Toughness to survive combat. There's already enough things to encourage focus on combat; I don't think I'd want to add to them.


It's interesting you would say that since the game already seems to favor a "race to 10 dice". I guess its just me, but I feel the current damage rules lean heavily on the whiff-factor. Because you need to roll 7+ on each damage die, its very easy to roll these great attack rolls and then get a terrible result on damage. No matter how well you hit your target, it's possible to do 0 damage.

Quote:
Alternatively, if this rule explicitly does not apply to minions, then it will favor the PCs (since there are usually more PCs than lieutenants and villains). It makes the lieutenants and villains scarier, but also means that the PCs will take them down more quickly.


It would apply to EVERYONE. Minions aren't much of an issue because they tend to be glass cannons. Their first hit is hard, but once reduced to half strength, a band isn't much of a threat anymore.

Lieutenants and Villains really wouldn't be that much scarier. Maybe if I started loading them up with Grand Fury and giving them all 8-10d in melee. Most of the adversaries range from 6-8d in melee, and I don't see a lot of escalation beyond that point.

Would it encourage the players to spend more of their points to increase Agility and Toughness? Maybe.

Quote:
How about a compromise - you can choose to have any 10s that you roll on an attack roll convert directly to damage (as long as you hit the target in the first place), but then they do not explode.


Eh. If I was seeing the sort of swingy-ness I see in Savage Worlds or 7th Sea, maybe. But I don't get that from WH. But all that is why I'm tempted to throw this in as a limited experiment, just to see what real effect it has on play.

I can think of a couple of other alternatives:
a) 1 point of damage per 2 bonus successes (a bit more math intensive, but it would blunt the effect and stay consistent with other parts of the system)
b) Bonus successes to your attack roll insure a minimum of 1 point of damage
c) Bonus successes set a "minimum damage threshold"; you roll damage normally, but if you roll less than the # of bonus successes, you do that much damage. Example: Say you really luck out against a target with 3 Avoidance and roll 8 successes. That's 5 bonus successes. You then roll damage dice (9 dice in this case) but only roll 3 damage. That's below the threshold, so you do 5 points of damage for the hit. OTOH, lets say you rolled 6 successes, or 6 points of damage. That's above the threshold, so you still do 6 points of damage.

Every one of those "alternatives" feels a bit more convoluted than I'd like. It's just very disheartening (for players AND your's truly) to roll great on one roll and have the second result completely steal your thunder. It just doesn't feel very heroic to me.

From the sound of it, however, implementing BOTH of these changes at the same time is probably a bad idea, since both of them affect the potential damage of a given attack. It would make more sense to introduce each one individually to test out the effect on play.

Tom

_________________
...and a Brace of Pistols
a blog dedicated to swashbuckling, fantasy and horror gaming

Witch Hunter: The Invisible World Unofficial Home on Google+


Top
Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: New tweaks for a new year...
PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2016 3:45 pm 
User avatar

Joined: Fri Sep 27, 2013 8:25 am
Posts: 573
Location: Dallas, TX
PCI Eric wrote:
I would test these carefully, the damage tracks are smaller in 2nd Edition, and these may have characters drop much more quickly


So far, characters dropping hasn't really been an issue. Maybe that's just a personal problem with my GMing style. :P

Health Tracks are a pretty easy tweak though if it needed fine-tuning. But warning heeded. Thanks, Eric.

Tom

_________________
...and a Brace of Pistols
a blog dedicated to swashbuckling, fantasy and horror gaming

Witch Hunter: The Invisible World Unofficial Home on Google+


Top
Offline Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 5 posts ]  Moderators: james.zwiers, PCI Eric

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group
Theme created StylerBB.net & kodeki