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Critique my Talent
https://forums.paradigmconcepts.com/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=1453		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Blusponge [ Sun Aug 17, 2014 3:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Critique my Talent
I wrote this up for my game in response to player requests. But they seem a little *too * enthusiastic at the results. ;) So I'm posting it here hoping for more extensive, sober criticism.

Quote:
Point Blank Accuracy (Basic)
Requirement: Marksman or Ranged 2
Description: You gain a +1d bonus to Attack rolls with ranged weapons against targets in the same Area.  You lose this bonus if confronted by more than 1 opponent at melee range.


The current draft also excludes applying the bonus to Aim actions, but I like that less and less as it seems too nitpicky. I could instead exclude it from firing into Melee.

But what do you guys n gals think?

Tom
Author:  HeridFel [ Mon Aug 18, 2014 8:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Critique my Talent
It's usually going to be worse than Expertise, unless your players are using ranged weapons like bows and crossbows along with guns. Expertise doesn't have the same area limitation, and it can't be negated by minions swarming (which, depending on how you build your encounters, could be very common or somewhat rare). Personally, I'd consider adding +1 DM or another small perk on top of what you have.
Author:  Blusponge [ Mon Aug 18, 2014 10:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Critique my Talent
Ack! I totally missed Expertise for this. Yeah, looks like I'll need to drop the prerequiste a bit and definitely drop the aim restriction. My only hesitation with adding the +1 DM is that starts to beef up the crossbow's point blank shot trick. Then again, the trick extends to 2 areas (point blank, really?) while this bonus would only apply to 1 area. So I can see them overlapping without too much trouble.

And is it really worth it to keep the melee cut off? Maybe not.

Thanks for the feedback, heirdfel.

Tom
Author:  Harliquinn [ Tue Aug 19, 2014 5:41 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Critique my Talent
I don't think there's a need for this talent to be honest. With the current Attack Focus, Attack Specialist, Expertise, Master Marksman and Weapon Tricks available, there are plenty of ways to boost weapon attacks and damage.

Anything with an attack bonus won't stack with Expertise. The existing Crossbow Trick requires a Wager for its benefit, and there really is no concept of being in melee as if you're in the same area you can attack whomever you'd like in it without moving.

What are you trying to accomplish with this talent?

John
Author:  Blusponge [ Tue Aug 19, 2014 8:54 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Critique my Talent
Harliquinn wrote:
What are you trying to accomplish with this talent?


The core of the idea is to allow an avenue for a character to get a small bonus for being in point blank range with a ranged weapon. So at it's most basic, the talent would be "you get +1d to Attack rolls vs targets in the same area." Right now, there really isn't anything for that in the game – Point Blank Shot only applies to crossbows (officially) and gives a damage bonus for a wager.

The idea of the melee limitation is simple: it's really hard to get a good shot off when you are being rushed by more than 1 guy – and even that's a stretch.

I feel just making it a circumstantial bonus doesn't jive well with Aim and the Point Blank Shot trick, so that leaves a Talent. But maybe it's too underpowered for that (that's why I was keeping it a Basic Talent). I'm open to other ideas. The players make a convincing argument and are open to minor hurdles.

Tom
Author:  PCIHenry [ Tue Aug 19, 2014 9:28 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Critique my Talent
Hello Tom,

Blusponge wrote:
The core of the idea is to allow an avenue for a character to get a small bonus for being in point blank range with a ranged weapon. So at it's most basic, the talent would be "you get +1d to Attack rolls vs targets in the same area." Right now, there really isn't anything for that in the game – Point Blank Shot only applies to crossbows (officially) and gives a damage bonus for a wager.


If this is truly the itch you're trying to scratch, then why not just give a "circumstantial" or "situational" modifier of +1d to the Attack roll when at Point Blank range.

No need for a Talent.
Author:  Harliquinn [ Tue Aug 19, 2014 10:31 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Critique my Talent
Tom
I'm all for creating neat and interesting combat abilities. However, I'm curious why there needs to be a general "bonus at point blank range" for ranges weapons? Here are the reasons I question the need or benefits.

1) There are no penalties to ranged attackers for being in the same area as another creature. There are no free strikes in the game. Therefore since there are no penalties I don't understand why there needs to be a bonus for it across the board.
2) It's unlikely that someone will be in a area with just one enemy, unless it's just a Lt. or adversary. Therefore the restriction might prohibits its use most of the time. It's also a little contradictory to say you get a bonus for being up close but it's harder to shoot someone when they are that close.
3) If it's a talent it won't stack with Expertise (Attack) or Attack Specialist (damage). You might be better off creating some Talent that gives a unique ability or bonus other than Attack or Damage. Something like "If you miss your attack you may take a -1d Wager to hit another enemy in the same Area (once per scene)"

If I'm missing something, please let me know.

John
Author:  Blusponge [ Tue Aug 19, 2014 1:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Critique my Talent
Hmm... Good exchange, guys. Thank you. A lot to mull over.

Harli, no you aren't missing anything. I really appreciate you playing devil's advocate here. This has kinda been the case for a modifier looking for a home. I buy the player's argument that using a pistol at close range should qualify for a bonus. It doesn't really fit as a weapon trick, a talent or even a circumstance bonus. At some point, it just gets really nitpicky and not-fun. But I wanted to see how well it would fit as a talent. But you're right, due to the talent stacking rules it becomes a big trap. So I think I'll just go back to wrapping it into tactical edge again. Hmm...

Thanks for all the feedback,
Tom
Author:  Harliquinn [ Tue Aug 19, 2014 2:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Critique my Talent
Tactical Edge is a good way to handle it, in my opinion. I don't think it's any easier or harder to shoot at someone within 18' unless you outnumber them and they have other things to worry about other than you. Seems like a good way to handle it, and falls within existing rules.

John
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