val Holryn wrote:
But I also want you to know that you need not fear physical reprisals from me because you talk to spirits. We live here in the First City with its freedom of conscience. I assure you the Golden Court explicitly forbids "compelled conversion."
As it probably should be. I would never place much faith is a conversion derived at sword point.
If only all were so civilized, but I hope you can understand my desire for anonymity, considering the very first response to my post was, in essence, a death threat.
val Holryn wrote:
It's very naughty that you do not follow the practices of the Mother Church. They very clearly speak against the supplication of demons and pagan spirits. For the good of your immortal soul I urge you to reconsider your choices in life.
The wording of the holy texts is ambiguous, as they generally indicate that "...
[dealing] with unsanctioned spirits is unclean." But what does unsanctioned mean? What is unclean? I will be the first to admit that there are horrible and unclean spirits in the world of dreams, and dealing with them can taint one’s soul, just as there are creatures of that nature in our world. But I also know there are wonderful and amazing spirits there that want only the best for the world, including spirits that serve the PoM. The church takes the obviously conservative view therefore, that all spirits are unclean, while I take the position just like people, some are, and some aren’t. I haven’t become a monk and cloistered myself away from the world to avoid meeting unclean people. I do not plan to cloister myself away from spirits for fear of encountering an unclean one either. My plan is the same no matter which world I walk in, to fight against those I oppose.
val Holryn wrote:
Now, as you hopefully weigh the merits of the Mother Church, perhaps you could ... in the meanwhile... take a moment or two to answer a few questions for me? I concede that it is hard to find open and honest sources concerning the practice of "talking to spirits." I should be grateful if you could answer just a couple of questions?
That is just the reason I have decided to start posting. Though I do wish to indicate these are just my perspective, which may change as I study my art.
val Holryn wrote:
Can you explain how, if at all, the choice of spiritual patrons impacts the powers you can weild through the arcanum? From what I can tell you are ALL a hexing, animalistic, elemental manipulating group of necromancers. How can that be? Does this mean that all primal practitioners essentially contact the same types of spirits? It seems very odd to me that a group of Undir water folk who talk to "the elements" should have the same powers as the followers of Jeggal Sagg much less infernal cultists such as the various covens of the Faerdau Witches of Milandir. Yet this seems to be the case....I confess confusion.
You might as well ask why most elder casters in the first city seem limited to elemental magics, creation, mental manipulations, and transmutations? Where are the great powers of creating new life forms and contacting new worlds we’ve heard about in legends? They are known to contact many planes of existence. Is this done through elemental magics?
So why are spirit-talkers limited in their abilities when they can associate with the limitless types of spirits in the spirit world? All I can say is that everyone must start somewhere. Not all spirit talkers develop to have the mastery of onieromancy that is their birthright. I know I am nowhere close. Personally, I have very little interest in necromancy, but I find that the spirits with which most spirit-talkers deal are those that have been most primal to life, especially before finding the gods.
What did man seek to understand before the gods? Why does it rain, flood, and how can we protect ourselves from drought and fire? (elementalism) What is death, and what comes after? (necromancy) How can we hunt and feed ourselves better, how do we domesticate animals? (animalism) How can we protect ourselves, and hurt our enemies? (hexes) These specialties tie into our most primitive instincts as a people, which helps drive what spirits to most strongly associate with people and thus with spirit-talkers. These are, if you will, the most humanocentric spirits in the spirit realm, and thus the first and easiest types of spirits a shaman learns to master. It is my intent to discuss the nature of the spirit realm at greater length later, but it is a subject that far exceeds the scope of your question.
I believe that the most powerful spirit-talkers are only limited by the spirits with which they connect, though I think that most never develop to this level of their art. Keep in mind, many spirit-talkers learn only what they need to in order to maintain their sanity and provide for a position within their community. They know that delving too far into the spirit world does have risks. Just as few swordsmen become masters of the blade, so to do few spirit-talkers go beyond the basics of their craft.
But as an example of shaman expanding their powers, I have heard that the shaman of some hyena men recently invited to settle in Milandir by the Ssressen had the ability to call upon demons and other fiendish powers. I am sure they made contact with some form of fiendish spirit capable of granting them these powers. While that is a perfect example of the type of spirits spirit-talkers should fight, rather than assist, it is an example of how a shaman can expand their abilities as they grow in power. Though it also raised serious questions in my mind about the goals of the Ssressen in Milandir, if they support such creatures, but that is a concern of mine as an individual, not as a spirit-talker.
val Holryn wrote:
Is it too much to hope you are connected to the, yes yes heretical, group known as the Ehtzarta?
I am not one. I harken from what the Coryani call the western lands, and there we have a much more religious and elemental tradition to our beliefs, while it is my experience there is a much more necromantic and arcane tradition in the hinterlands. I have met some, and can confirm that they are at least some form of spirit-talker, but I cannot speak to whether their organization has additional patrons from the spirit world that may provide powers beyond those of which I know.
Beyond that, I know nothing about the Ehtzarta that you probably haven’t already heard. Interestingly, I have heard that the Hinterlanders place Saluwe as the patron and source of primal magics in a much more primitive aspect of her than the Coryani espouse. I am not surprised to hear of their ties to Sarish as well. Additionally, I have heard that the Ehtzarta of the Hinterlands and the Sarishans of the Dark Triumvirate have had some friendly dealings, indicating that not all churches view shaman with blind hatred. Though considering the church in question, that is not very likely to help with supporting the argument that we spirit-talkers aren’t heretics…
[quote="val Holryn"]And, of course, will pray for you.[quote]
And I will pray to the gods for those like you as well, as any believer in the gods should. And how can anyone who has that belief be considered a heretic?