Lifestyle costs do not fix a problem

Additional Complex argument:
Right now there is NO in game economy in Arcanis to speak of, and this is a problem but tacking something like a lifestyle cost as a solution to the lack of economy is insulting. Money management is a meta game (a game with in a game).

-no consumables- 3rd edition, assumed there would be a certain amount of consumable items used, Arcanis as it stands does not have the option for any consumable items (that are significant in terms of cost)

-Weapon Costs- Weapons are either 75SC or over 25GC for common weapons , Fine weapons start at 1GC and range to 500GC and exceptional weapons start at 5gc and go to 2500gc !!!!

-Armor costs - a bit more spread out but the top end armors are 60 and 75 gc, and probably unattainable by purchase until t3, and would make a poor purchase at that point

-Runes - at 5gc per tier they would be perfectly fine for purchase if they were available, out of the 40 or so adventures, I would contend less that 5 have the text required to allow for the purchase of runes.

As it stands for the Original post Delbert could afford to pay for the highest lifestyle for the next 70 mods, that sounds kinda unbalanced to me. I would much rather have a BETTER money sink


possible solutions to the economy problems other than lifestyle

Purchasable land, heck this could make for an awesome supplement, I'm pretty dang good at mechanics who do I need to pitch this to? (alas I wish i was better at dialog)

Purchasable equipment that is affordable, creating and adding consumable and alchemical items that are worthwhile (create separate, non damaging effects) potions, and minor magical trinkets , Scrolls! making some of these types of thing available will even open up certain adventure types (think scrolls of dolphin chant).

purchasable special materials, particularly fine and exceptional gear made from special materials

I'm against this... As Josh as already pointed out, it's more bookkeeping on every.single.module... I thought that was the whole point of getting away from things like the Magic Item Creation Sheet, the complete gear list sheet, etc, etc, etc.

If you want an in-game argument against it: we already have to pay for every single inn / resort / pig sty we stay at (unless covered by some patron).

I'd be fine with it if it were completely opt in/out. Opt out: nothing happens, nothing at all. Opt in: pick your level, get some bonuses / negatives.

It's hard enough for me to remember every single situational bonus I get from Talents and/or items like Heirlooms that I actually spent the time and effort to personally pick out for my character. Then I have to worry about stacking rules and keep straight what I get and from where just in case someone wants to cast a spell on me or hand me a new item. It's not brain surgery, but it can very well be a PITA (pain in the ass)...

Give me the option to opt out - whereby absolutely nothing good or bad happens to me. Let the other guy at the table that really wants to put down 10Sc for the (crappy) inn's best room and best (of the crappy) food and get to act like a big shot in the (just-as-crappy) little town, with the (crap covered) plebeians bowing and the gentry kissing his arse.

One of my characters would probably take that. The other has much better things to do in those 10 seconds of Living Bookkeeping (like finding new and creative ways to help Josh use Skyward to piss off Tony).

The goal of a role playing game is NOT to approximate life as much as possible. I don't like bookkeeping in real life, why would I enjoy it in the fantasy land I go to escape? If I wanted a real life simulator, I'd go play the Sims (if I lived in Detroit I'd probably play Call of Duty or Grand Theft Auto) or, you know, go outside.


Side note - new character Path, 'Accountant'... He comes with a special martial maneuver: "Bookkeeping" - +18(0), Non-interruptable, bores the absolute life out of target: causes the target to become so bored that they commit suicide by the most boring means possible at the time (this can include simply no longer having the will/desire to breathe)

Agreed.

Book keeping type tasks should really be glossed over, much like a lot of down time. It's intreague and action that the game is about, not about minutae of everyday events.

I'm against lifestyle cost. Aside from accounting for account sake and being a cash sink, once it becomes popular, it's going to promote harder TNs for social skill and thus will promote required use and become a social skill tax.

As disgusting as your character is, as an adventurer the amount of coin amassed will break that barrier.

While not a big fan of bookeeping, I did enjoy spending cash in the last campaign for at least one character. He would alway drop a sizeable amount of money on the record sheet to reflect livin' large with the ladies. Spending on ale and whores as it were. In one mod I bought silks in Nishanpur and then next time I was in Old Coryan I had nice gowns made for my two favorite working girls and we went to the proverbial night at the opera. Now this character was Subotai Ironhand, my half-hobgoblin, so it was a bit like Hellboy going to the Met. Point is I didn't get any in-game benefit from it, it was just fun to do from a RP perspective. At present I don't have any characters that would do such a thing, but that might change once I roll out my Undir shaman. He may come from the swamp, but that doesn't mean he doesn't enjoy a night on the town.

Now I wouldn't mind a in-game mechanic to help my character in these situations, but I cool if the PTB say no. Just my two cents.

I have been thinking on this for a bit, and several people brinng up good points. I, for one, like thee added level of lifestyle costs (and benefits). But, I understand why some would not want to get into the minutia of such details.

What I would suggest is thus:

Low Lifestyle: No Cost. You are sleeping in a tent or the gutter. You hunt, forage, or dumpster dive for food. You take X penalty to social rolls unless interacting in the slums/dregs of society. You may make a "earn a living roll". May not be voluntarily taken by anyone with the "Expensive Taste" Flaw.

Average Lifestyle aka "the anti-bookkeeping option": No Cost. You stay in a reasonable flat or inn that provides meals. You may not make an "earn a living roll", as this offsets your lifestyle needs. May not voluntarily be taken by anyone with the "Expensive Taste" Flaw.

High Lifestyle:X Cost. You stay in a nicer establisment and gain X bonus to social skill rolls. You may make an "Earn a Living Roll".

Exalted Lifestyle: XX Cost. You stay in only the finest inns and dine at the most exclusive of establishments. You gain XX bonus to social skill rolls. You may make an "earn a living" roll. This lifestyle level is reserved for particular characters "e.g. Patricians, Legates, Noble Born, special certed invitations, etc".

Works for me. Everything should be based around a "no bookkeeping" option.

I like it. Simple yet realistic, minor benefits for going any direction. Good work Matt.

I strongly disagree with two points of this.
1 - It makes no sense to *ever* not allow a roll to earn a living. Every character is different and makes a living in different ways. The character that intentionally takes 'low' because it fits his character, could yet make a living as a bouncer or theft or whatever. If 'high' is the first level you can roll for a living, what the hell is the point? You're spending the money on lifestyle that you just rolled for a living. Congrats, you just netted 2Sc... How does that fit "high lifestyle" if you're barely banking any money?

2 - Additionally, if you require someone with 'expensive taste' to take at least 'high', then there is no option to not participate in the bookkeeping.

In my almost never humble opinion, Lifestyle costs and a Earn a Living should be completely optional and be completely decoupled. BOTH are bookkeeping for bookkeeping's sake. We have a hard enough time getting new players into this system and this shared campaign...why are we adding things to make it more difficult?

Hell, for that matter, solve all the Fate Point issues at the same time. What are those issues, you ask? Things like: some GMs being more generous/stingy than others; players 'banking' them and/or 'hesitant' to spend them, players having X points but can only spend X/3 per module, etc.

For the shared campaign, the solution is simple: every adventure all characters start with a number of Fate Points equal to their Fate Score. Points do not accumulate or carry over. Let private home games accumulate and carry over (or not, depending on the GM).