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 Post subject: Three Heads
PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2018 1:15 pm 
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The first head of the Dragon was Manetas. That head has been removed.

The second head is Calmemnon.

The third head will be Elandré.

[Personal theory. Ask if you want an elaboration.]

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David Thomas Chappell
Sestius Ovidius val'Mehan Comma and Khamat - psion patrician diplomatic legate and his Myrantian tutor
Quintus Ovidius val'Mehan - patrician military tribune
Amadi val'Abebi - Monk of Althares
Talathos - choleric Kelekene dabbler


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 Post subject: Re: Three Heads
PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2018 9:33 pm 
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Why a Dragon as a metaphor when all three are conected to Illiir & Coryan? I would be looking for a three headed falcon (maybe) in a prophesy about them. I’m not sure about this one...

Instead as an alternative. We can guess from Walking on Eggshells and Gleams of Fire that there is major upheaval going on inside Ssethregore. Ssethregore being represented as a dragon in prophesy makes much more sense to me. The Emperor has three sons ... if he died (or was assasinated) the three of them would fight for control of the crown and the Ssethrics people would becwracked with civil war. We also know that there is/was a remnant population of elorii slaves in Ssethregore. If “Ssk...” the Paragon of Nayal, happened to align (or takeover & lead) one of the factions then that might also explain where the nayalakeen “elorii” came from.

That’s my 2 cents on that augary ... for what it’s worth.

(I do agree that Elandre is going to play a major role in the future & ... maybe as much a problem to be sorted out ... than big artillery helping boost the PCs with tailwinds.)

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. . . and Sir Szymon val'Holryn, Order of the Phoenix
Formerly Sir Jaeger val'Holryn. Weilder of the Holy Avenger: Thonanos. Gave his soul to help free King Noen


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 Post subject: Re: Three Heads
PostPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2018 1:04 pm 

Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2014 11:17 am
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Dante wrote:
The first head of the Dragon was Manetas. That head has been removed.

The second head is Calmemnon.

The third head will be Elandré.


I think it's a mistake to try and connect these new prophecies with the past campaign.
The prophecy in question is below.

I see three heads upon the body of the Dragon
A crown wrestled between them,
They rip and tear
At one another until
The blood of millions
Drowns out the cries
Of their supplicants.

With the next Arc called the War of Paragons. I think you are right about 1 head representing Calmemnon. The other two will be equally powerful beings in the present that fight against Calmemnon. Whether they are friends to us is a different story as the prophecy seems to indicate their battles will cause countless death.

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 Post subject: Re: Three Heads
PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2018 2:01 am 
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The Vault wrote:
The prophecy in question is below.


Based just on the prophecy that Ken cited, I'd suspect perhaps it means Ssethregore. However, another prophecy mentions a three-headed dragon, and another seemingly off-hand reference in Codex of Heroes talks about two heads replacing a severed head.

For the Ssethregoran interpretation, who are the three heads? The sons of the Emperor? Something bigger with different groups?

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David Thomas Chappell
Sestius Ovidius val'Mehan Comma and Khamat - psion patrician diplomatic legate and his Myrantian tutor
Quintus Ovidius val'Mehan - patrician military tribune
Amadi val'Abebi - Monk of Althares
Talathos - choleric Kelekene dabbler


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 Post subject: Re: Three Heads
PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2018 7:19 pm 

Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2014 11:17 am
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If you follow the Ssethregoran idea most likely three heads would be the Ssethric Pantheons.
The Varn, the old gods Kassegore and Yig, and something new trying to replace both maybe this Ssk... that has been mentioned.
But is there millions of Ssethics beings in the Ssethregoran Empire to meet the blood letting the prophecy mentions?
Lets assume there is. Would any nation in the world care if Ssetrics kill each other to that extent? No
Let's assume there is not million of Ssethrics. Would the fighting of these 3 groups of supplicants lead to the death of millions of the other races? (human, Val, Elorii, etc.) I can't imagine that happening when they are located in the Kraldjur Morass and further south. The fight would be focused in that area of the world.
For those 2 reasons I don't believe the dragon references Ssethregore. A dragon is seen as one of the most powerful creatures in the known world. It took teams of Valinor to take some of them down. The Destroyer (a Paragon) is destined to kill one of the dragons still alive, clearly he is more powerful. I believe the 3 headed dragon references 3 powerful beings, perhaps 3 of these upcoming Paragons.

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 Post subject: Re: Three Heads
PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2018 6:55 pm 

Joined: Thu Nov 07, 2013 9:37 pm
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Location: Michigan
The Vault wrote:
Let's assume there is not million of Ssethrics. Would the fighting of these 3 groups of supplicants lead to the death of millions of the other races? (human, Val, Elorii, etc.) I can't imagine that happening when they are located in the Kraldjur Morass and further south. The fight would be focused in that area of the world.


I believe that their southern empire is supposed to be quite large, and their population extends under water and underground significantly compared to humans, so I think millions is very possible with the Ssethric nation alone. Additionally, what we have been led to believe by published products (but I don't think ever observed in character or heard about by characters) is that the Ssethric empire has been involved in protracted war in the lavender way against the silence (and maybe the song, and now maybe against the Il'Huan too). The empire collapsing so that the Silence are no longer significantly opposed underground could have dire ramifications for everyone.

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 Post subject: Re: Three Heads
PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 5:00 am 
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The speculation is interesting. Much more so than the gossip one endures from old relatives. For just about one whole year...

It’s nice to stretch and think about visiting with old friends.

For my part, I have assumed that the Dragon in this micro prophesy refers to the calamity brought about by the Destroyer. In that case the three heads are: Calemnon, an unfortunate survivor who should have died as a child. His Master of Horse and chief “statue maker” Marcus Lepidus. And that noose wearing weasel I dearly want to see thrown from the battlements.

Will this be the year I see charlatan brought to justice? Or at least the year when the women of the Golden Court are avenged? One patrician in Grand Coryan dearly hopes so.

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 Post subject: Re: Three Heads
PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2018 10:19 pm 
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Minor spoilers for Story Arc 2 Hard Points (mostly prophecies therein) follow:

Talking with my good friend Alicia (who was the first to pinpoint Manetas as the culprit behind the Coryani Civil War troubles), an idea arose.

There's mention in the Codex of Heroes of two disasters arising where one was averted, "like the fabled hydra." I had always presumed that was an allegory about how trouble is always spouting up everywhere in Arcanis (which frustrated me lots in the d20 campaign: once we thought we knew who the new bad guy was, another foe would pop up). But maybe it's more than a general analogy. There are also two prophecies of a dragon with three heads. Maybe there really are three major troubles, and one has been eliminated, leaving two in its place.

Moreover, the phrase God-Emperor has arisen in some recent prophecies. The only other place where that term was used was in the infamously epic d20 HP adventure "To Peel the Veil of Lightness and Dark" wherein a future ruler of Arcanis was a mysterious God-Emperor dedicated to Illiir. (Maybe Henry Lopez just likes the term "God-Emperor," or maybe it's a serious connection.) Players presumed that the God-Emperor was probably Manetas or perhaps Emperor Calsestus or a Calsestus-clone sometimes acting in his stead, but Manetas at the core. I originally thought that the mystery of the God-Emperor was just a reason to hold off the identity of Manetas from players (even though numerous of us had known it for years).

Combining the mysterious identity of the God-Emperor with the 3-headed hydra, perhaps there are two more candidates to become God-Emperor. Based on the prophecies of Story Arc 2, Altherian Ambassador Tukufu (Eric Gorman) has for a couple years now espoused that Calmemnon val'Assanté, son of Calsestus, is the Destroyer. As a val'Assante who sees himself as proper heir to the Alabaster Throne of Coryan, Calmemnon would fit fine with what is known of the future God-Emperor in "To Peel the Veil." Perhaps we WILL have to stop him as the second head. Given that he was born of Calsestus (who was already of high bloodrank) when he was under the influence of the foremost Valinor of Illiir (or some suggest maybe Manetas was his true father) and a val'Dellenov also of noble bloodrank, Calmemnon surely is powerful, perhaps more powerful than any Val since the first generation of Vals millennia ago. He will be a force to be recknoned with.

Who, then, is the third head? Who else has such high personal power *and* would be more in favor of the val'Assanté over all other val families? The prime candidate I can think of is none other than Elandré val'Assanté, whom we long-time players have seen evolve from a smart, wistful young lady who was a political pawn into a grand prophetess while possessed by the Valinor the Word of Illiir and finally becoming the Matriarch of the Mother Church with strict dogma. She, too, could fit the bill of the future God-Emperor. The sort of holy war that would erupt in the need to stop her would be a mighty one well worthy of Arcanis. With churches fighting each other and the Mourners for once being somewhat on the better side, could Elandré be the final head who may bring about a future desolate world decaying into Entropy?

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David Thomas Chappell
Sestius Ovidius val'Mehan Comma and Khamat - psion patrician diplomatic legate and his Myrantian tutor
Quintus Ovidius val'Mehan - patrician military tribune
Amadi val'Abebi - Monk of Althares
Talathos - choleric Kelekene dabbler


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