Paradigm Concepts

Need build help
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Author:  val Holryn [ Sun Jul 23, 2017 7:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Need build help

I may be retiring or semi-retiring Tukufu as we go into the next arc. I've started looking at other characters I'd like to play. I have a Knight of the Phoenix as a back up ... but am not really sure that's where I want to go.

Instead I've been thinking about bringing in my val'Vasik character. I'd like to play a psion that can also hit in Melee and qualify for the BL Path: Attendants of the Soldier Saints (in hopes he might be able to test for the order at point in the future).

I'm having an easy time getting two of the above but all three seems difficult. Anyone with thoughts on how to mechanically skin this cat?

Author:  Southernskies [ Sun Jul 23, 2017 10:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Need build help

How many val'Vasik blood powers do you need? (Since I don't have a copy of it). Are there any useful blood powers available to meet requirements?

Author:  val Holryn [ Sun Jul 23, 2017 11:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Need build help

There are useful bloodline powers...they don't help meet requirements.

My first build as an expert really didn't work for me because it doesn't give me enough talent slots to get the bloodline powers...part of my thinking is that if you potentially have a collection of unique abilities with a special character cert you should really make an effort to include them in the build (or why are you bothering with the special character?)

I need 1 talent per Tier for Bloodline talents:
At T1 they have a push 2 BL power that gives you a bonus to a defense
At T2 they have a push 2 power that makes an attacker make a resolve roll vs their own discipline defense or their attack automatically misses
At T3 they can make a Infernal Shade or Undead make a Horror check.
(@T4 you get better at Horror checks and T5 gives you a 20r "fireball" of light you use with ranged thrown. If the build has Ranged: Thrown at combat grade then the last two powers are worth having. If not ... probably not.

The val Vasik also have two unique Heritage spells. At T2 you blind foes ... up to 9 ticks with adaptations. At T4 you become large sized and stronger.

I tried again as an Arcane archetype (with Warrior Mage) qualifying through the path Sword Saint...but hen got distracted looking at also trying to fold some divine casting in as well. Maybe there is something there but that build was kind of a hot mess.

Author:  Southernskies [ Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:10 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Need build help

My immediate sketches (without fine detail) are:
Arcane (a), Milandiir, Squire (ba), Knight Apparent or Knight Errant (pa), Psion (pa); use Warrior Mage (ta) for melee boost
Arcane (a), Almeric, Equestrian (ba), Knight Errant, Psion (pa)
Arcane (a), Coryan, Equestrian (ba), ?? (pa), Psion (pa); (Strength of the Coryani Heart)
Expert (a), Coryan, Equestrian (ba), (ASC via Wilderness Lore), Spontaneously Awakened Scion, Psion.

The Coryani build would allow Awakened Psion (pa) to be slotted in or pick up Sword Saint (for DSC).
The Squire build is the strongest options (due to gaining Advanced Armor Training).
The expert build takes some very tight building which digs into the Talent slots.
I don't recommend trying to do DSC on top; I've tried for years with Astra and could never get a viable build written between melee/ASC/DSC/LMT/Bloodrank needs. Just not possible without something being below the skill rank curve. You can pick up the DSC talent... once... without big problems, but Arcanum (Cants) will only be 2 ranks/tier.

I had a look at Milandisian Warmind and War Mage, but your original specified Psion be included. Without Psion, the options open up quite a bit.

Author:  Sparhawk42 [ Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Need build help

It depends on how focused you want to be on the psionics and how focused on the weapon side of stuff. I can get a character to psionics in Tier 1 through a Martial build and the right Path, and then to Attendant of the Soldier Saints in Tier 2. That kind of build will obviously be better with the weapon than the psionics, but be getting about 2 ranks each tier and 1-3 ranks of Meditation at character creation. Melee will have the chance to be maxed out if you want to.

There are many ways to build this through the Arcane background, but the Melee skill will suffer some in lieu of casting. I have a friend who has built a melee psion and picked up the Reckless Swings technique in Tier 2 to help compensate.

This can also be done through Expert, though both Melee and Meditation suffer a bit during character creation but then are both at full advancement later.

My main two questions I would need to answer to start building this kind of character are:
1.) Is the weapon usage or the psionics more important, or are they more equal?
2.) Coryani or Milandisian style?

Author:  val Holryn [ Mon Jul 24, 2017 3:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Need build help

Thanks everyone who have offered advice.

I have left out an important complication that the PC starts of from the Sealed Lands at creation. The cert is unclear if the PC can claim to be among landesian after creation (King Gerhart has invited the val'Vasik to settle in Milandir in the aftermath of the Crusade. (With the death of Holy Xabal and the annihilation of Bastion). If not then I think my background has to be Crusader (CoH)

Author:  Sparhawk42 [ Mon Jul 24, 2017 4:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Need build help

You can if the character has the Exile/Expatriate background. As a bonus, it gives a character either 1 rank in a Combat skill or a rank in an Arcane skill, so it can potentially work fairly well towards the build your looking for.

Author:  Southernskies [ Mon Jul 24, 2017 6:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Need build help

That is a *major* complication. Your only option is to go via Sword Saint.

You need to get clarified what your starting Nation is for the Cert. If its Unsealed Lands, your concept is a nightmare, due to needing Knight's Code or Strength of the Coryani Heart.

The only build is:
Arcane (a), Unsealed Lands, Crusader (ba), Sword Saint (pa), Knight Errant (pa), Attendant (pa)

Nothing else is possible with that starting nation.

**** edit ****
Try this. There are a few blanks and a few 'optional' talents I've included (such as Adaptable to fill out the Lore advancement)

2. Archetype: Arcane
Arcanum (Meditation)
Lore: Knowledge (Religion)
Lore: Knowledge (Arcanum)
Talents: (Ignore requirements, choose now)
Armour Proficiency ( Light: Nation )
Weapon Training ( Nation: Spatha, Tower Shield )
Arcane Spellcasting (Psionics)

3. Attributes (Heroic – 40 point buy)
Mi _5_____ Ch _5+1__
Pr _3+1__ In _6__
Qu _4____ Lo _5____
Vi _4____ Re _5___

4. Race: val’Vasik (Illiir)
Arcanum (Meditation)
Etiquette (Milandir)
Talents (chosen Step 9):
Bloodrank: ?
Weapon Mastery I: Spatha

+1 Social Skill Checks
Racial Language: High Coryani, Native
Attribute Adjustment (Choose): Ch / In?

5. Nation/Region: Unsealed Lands
Knowledge (The Planes)

Native Language:

6. Background: Crusader
Minimum Age: 20
Attribute Adjustment (Lowest): Pr / Re
Knowledge (The Planes)
Melee (Balanced)

Talents: (Ignore requirements, chosen Step 9)
Monster Lore (Infernals)

Change Home Nation to Milandir.

Starting Gear:
Spatha, Tower Shield
Military Kit
Lorica Squamata
Adorned Flintlock Pistol

Starting Silver: 4d8 (Ch)

7. Train Skills (pLo + pRe +3 skill points)
Arcanum (Meditation)
Arcanum (Cants)
Knowledge (Religion)
Melee (Balanced)
Melee (Unbalanced)
Ranged (Thrown)

8. Choose Flaws (Optional)
Heroic or Code of Honor

9. Train Talents (Must meet requirements)
Born in the Saddle
Armor Training: Medium
Adaptable (Beast Lore: Horses, Heal)

10. Advancement Plan:
1.1 Character Creation
1.2 Path: Sword Saint [Athletics, Knowledge (Religion), Blessed Vitality, Strength of Faith]
1.3 +1 Pr / +1 In
1.4 +1 Qu / +1 Vi
1.5 +1 Arcanum, Deceit, Stealth
1.6 +1 All Trained
1.7 +1 Trained (pLo+3): Arcanum (Meditation), Arcanum (Cants), Melee (Balanced), Melee (Unbalanced), Mettle, Ranged (Thrown)
1.8 +2 Defences
1.9 Talents (2): Rudimentary Prayers, Warrior Mage
1.10 Arcanum Talents (2): ?, ?

2.1 Path: Knight Errant [Ride, Athletics; LMT Sweeping Strike, Knight’s Code]
2.2 +1 Arcanum, Deceit, Stealth
2.3 +1 All Trained
2.4 +1 Trained (pLo+3): Arcanum (Meditation), Arcanum (Cants), Melee (Balanced), Melee (Unbalanced), Mettle, Ranged (Thrown)
2.5 +2 Defences
2.6 +1 Ch / +1 In
2.7 Arcanum Talents (2): ASC II, ?
2.8 Talents (2): Bloodline, Sabbatical [Arcanum (Cants), Arcanum (Meditation), Melee (Balanced)]
2.9 +1 Lore (pLo+3): Beast Lore (Horses), Heal, Knowledge (Religion), Knowledge (The Planes), Linguistics, Tracking
2.10 Talents (1): DSC I

3.1 Path: Attendant to the Soldier Saints of Dagha [Ride, Wilderness Lore; Strength of the Coryani Heart, Dedicated Defender]

Author:  PCIHenry [ Mon Jul 24, 2017 10:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Need build help

Hello Eric,

val Holryn wrote:
The cert is unclear if the PC can claim to be among landesian after creation (King Gerhart has invited the val'Vasik to settle in Milandir in the aftermath of the Crusade. (

Sorry for any confusion, but given that the Crusade was just a few years prior to the current year, your character starting region is the Sealed Lands/Fiendish Expanse.

Author:  val Holryn [ Tue Jul 25, 2017 10:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Need build help

Thanks for the response Henry.

Not helpful for realizing the character concept I had in mind. But makes sense. I'll keep looking for that magical sweet spot where the numbers and the idea converge.

A big shout out to Southernskies too. That's a pretty good work up. I'm going to keep that in mind while I also ruminate on other possibilities.

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