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 Post subject: Re: What is a Paragon?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 7:53 am 
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Location: Portland OR
In the Live Chat yesterday, Henry talked a little bit about Paragons. Henry is pretty good at being slippery and he didn't exactly give the farm away. But he mention a few things. One: he did rule out Elebac as a Paragon. And he didn't really think Xercel qualified either either, though he mulled that question a little bit before offering an opinion.

He was silent on Melirios and Elandre. We are supposedly meeting with Melirios in the Origins modules (or at least he's at the heart of the action in two of the Hard Points). And Henry said it was likely that our players would be interacting with Elandre soon.

My opinion has shifted somewhat based on what Henry has said. It seems you have to be a Paragon of something and I am inferring (correctly or not) that something seems to be a Deity. So I think k you won't find a paragon "of the dwarves" or of the "val Virdan."

Makes me wonder: who is Calemnon the paragon of?

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 Post subject: Re: What is a Paragon?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 8:35 am 

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Very interesting question, Eric. This is of course complicated by the question: are we even aware of all of the deities? The Silence is certainly a Force, but it's unclear whether it is or is not one or more deities. If there are deities there, how do we think about them? If it's a force does it have any sentience or is it simply the power of entropy?

Of perhaps equal interest is if you assume there isn't anything to be a Paragon for there, where does that leave Cal? Does he embody an aspect of Illir? Can you be a Paragon of a dead god? If we compare what we've seen him do compared to say Manetas, where does he fit on a relative scale of power?

With a sweep of his hat,

Paul


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 Post subject: Re: What is a Paragon?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 9:31 am 

Joined: Sun Sep 29, 2013 4:03 pm
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Location: Mahwah, NJ
I might be completely off the mark but Paragons remind me a little of The Ascendants from Steven Erikson's Malazan Book of the Fallen series. While not quite Gods, they have enough of a divine spark that sets them above mortals and some of them are near immortal (Anomander Rake, High King Kallor, etc). For those that have not read the series, couldn't recommend it enough.

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Joe Cirillo


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 Post subject: Re: What is a Paragon?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 10:14 am 

Joined: Fri Sep 27, 2013 12:08 am
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Happy to see the Live chat sparked some discussion.

I think I'll have to do another one,as it was a good experience for me.

@Joe - I hadn't made the connection with Erikson's Ascendants, but now that you mention it...

I also can't recommend that series enough.

Well, back to writing HP 3-1.

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 Post subject: Re: What is a Paragon?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 3:42 pm 
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blackthorn wrote:
I might be completely off the mark but Paragons remind me a little of The Ascendants from Steven Erikson's Malazan Book of the Fallen series. While not quite Gods, they have enough of a divine spark that sets them above mortals and some of them are near immortal (Anomander Rake, High King Kallor, etc). For those that have not read the series, couldn't recommend it enough.

Best,

Joe Cirillo

That's a good thought and reference. Haven't finished all 10 of the books, but I'm working through them. Agree there is quite a bit of strong writing. Henry used Leonydas as a "benchmark" and noted that though mortal he touched or connected to divinity in a way that transformed him. Setting him above what a normal person could match.

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AKA Ambassador Tukufu, man of letters, tomb raider and Master Sword Sage
. . . and Sir Szymon val'Holryn, Order of the Phoenix
Formerly Sir Jaeger val'Holryn. Weilder of the Holy Avenger: Thonanos. Gave his soul to help free King Noen


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 Post subject: Re: What is a Paragon?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 11:08 am 
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val Holryn wrote:
My opinion has shifted somewhat based on what Henry has said. It seems you have to be a Paragon of something and I am inferring (correctly or not) that something seems to be a Deity. So I think k you won't find a paragon "of the dwarves" or of the "val Virdan."

Makes me wonder: who is Calemnon the paragon of?

My first suspicion was that Calmemnon is the Paragon of Pride, considering his parentage and his personality. If, alternatively, he is the Paragon of Illiir, might Elandré be also a Paragon of Illiir? That could make an interesting war.

(The father of Calmemnon was apparently Emperor Calsestus val'Assanté while strongly under the influence of the Pride of Illiir, but his true father could have been Prince Avinash of Maa’keesh while in disguise as Calsestus or could even have been the Pride of Illiir himself. Elandré val'Assanté was possessed by the Word of Illiir for a while, which clearly permanently affected her.)

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 Post subject: Re: What is a Paragon?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 6:45 pm 

Joined: Mon Dec 09, 2013 11:41 pm
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Location: Australia
Just to through another though into the mix.

In Roman / Greek mythology a hero was defined as someone that had the blood of the gods (not just perform heroic acts) - according to the uni course I did a few years back

Hercules was a hero because he was the offspring of Zeus; Aeneas was the son of Venus/Aphrodite, etc

What if a paragon is the direct offspring of a God or Valinor (Calmemmenon - son of of the Pride of Illir, etc)

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