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 Post subject: Re: Musings of a Canadian Nierite. . .
PostPosted: Mon Aug 31, 2015 4:03 pm 
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Let us now all delve into the depths of obscurity in the Arcanis Universe: The Tenecians.

Of all the human nations of the Shadowed Age, few have been in Arcanis canon longer (with the first references that I know of in the PGTA and Codex Arcanis), and with less information provided on them, then the Tenecians. In fact, the only other two Shadow Age Empires we know about (excluding the Khitani) who have been with the campaign as long are the Myrantian Hegemony and the Auxunite Empire. In both these other cases, we have a great deal more information provided on them in various sources (with the Auxunites getting a fairly detailed origin story in Legacy of Damnation), with the vast majority of information on these Tenecians coming from only the two sources listed in the first sentence of this paragraph.

But, enough about how little we know about them, and more about what we DO know about them. The Tenecian Empire was founded some 187 years before the foundation of the Coryani Empire and lasted until 120 years before the Coryani Empire. It was located in the southern half of the Coryani Empire (Balantica, Cormata, Annonica, and Salantis). They were somehow related to the modern Altherian peoples of the Republic of Atheria, with the PGTA even going so far as to equate them as the same people. They had a language and alphabet unique to them which appears distinct from any of the languages in the universe. They were said to be tyrannical in the way their founded their empire. Finally, the Mother Church of Coryan seems to have some objections to people poking around in their ruins owing to strange knowledge, declaring them forbidden, a point which has angered at least a few Altherian scholars in the Empire and Republic.

That is it. Seriously, if there are additional sources on the Tenecians beyond the ones I have found, I would love to see more of them, but these resources are very thin on the ground. However, reading between the lines, we can learn more than a little bit about them than these bare details tell us.

For one, we know more or less where the Tenecians lived. The area that is now the south of the Coryani Empire was actually a quite diverse area during the latter half of the Shadowed Age. It was in this general area that the Myrantian Hegemony, the only known remnant of the ancient Myrantian Empire which coexisted and competed with the First Imperium of man following the God’s War, reigned. At their height a bit over a thousand years before the Tenecians, the Myrantians ruled an area encumphasing an area at least from Sulpecci on the Sea of Yarris to the Golden boughs of Saluwe’ in Balantica, down to the modern state of the Abessian Dominions. Following a war involving the Myrantians, the Sorcerer-King and is Mandragorans (note the lack of the “Y” at the start of that word), and a group of apparently First Imperium-related mages known as the Eryunellians (another nationstate in that area, presumably), the capital city of Myrantis fell to the powers of the Sorcerer-King and the Myrantian Hegemony fell apart. It continued to exist until after the founding of the Coryani Empire, however, and was eventually conquered by that Empire after (officially) the Myrantians tried to conquer Savona half a century after the founding of the Coryani Empire.

We also know that the people who now inhabit the Coryani provinces of Annonica and Salantis use naming schemes different than that of the more northern parts of the empire. For example, Balantica, Illonia, and Cafela all use Italian-based names (Roman or medieval Italian), while Annonica and Salantis use Greek and Spanish names. Assuming these names relate to the peoples who are originally from those regions prior to their incorporation into the Empire rather than colonists, they show two distinct groups which could also represent ethnic groups native to the area. Also in this area were found a group of mounted peoples (or, at least a people who used horses in war) which gave rise to the val’Baucisz line, and presumably their Harn allies/kinsmen. During the adventure “Once Upon a Time in Metra” it showed that the val’Baucisz originated on the Coryani side of the Sea of Coryan, and from my understanding of the timeline, this happened before (or concurrent to) the Time of Terror. This means that there was another ethnic group which existed within this area beyond the Myrantians, though these people (who seem to use Slavic and Romanian type names) could be related to the Greek and Spanish-sounding people of Annonica and Salantis.

The most interesting point about the Tenecians is what is said on page 8 of the Players Guide to Arcanis (the 3.5 ‘core book’). Here, it clearly states that the Tenecians were the ancient Altherian peoples, and that their empire was both created and destroyed through the power of the First Gift of Althares (electricity, as well as gravity manipulation or electromagnetism). This astonishes me, because until literally the day I wrote this I had apparently missed that particular sentence in all my reading of Arcanis lore. In the Altherian history, the original nation of Altheria was located in an undefined place ‘far away’ from the modern Altherian Plateau, and the Altherian people were simple inventors who were beset by warbands and barbarian tribes who were less enlightened them themselves. The beseeched for help from Althares, and He gave them His First Gift. Using this gift, the Altherians began to dominate (economically, they claim) their neighbours using intimidation and their stranglehold on advanced technologies. This behaviour led to resentment, and eventually to the peoples of Onara attacking the Altherian people. To save themselves from assault, the Altherians created the city of Khafre’, a floating city which could soar above those who wished to threaten the Altherian people (and their domination). Lead by a nation of Orcs (now either Gar or humans, in the current setting), Khafre’ (and the Altherian capital of Althare’) was assaulted before it could launch, damaging the city and leading to the premature launch of Khafre’, decimating the invading army and the rest of Althare’ in the process. After a prolonged siege, Khafre’ cut its moorings loose and floated away, eventually crash landing on the modern site of New Althare’.

If you take the PGTA reference at face value, it seems to say that the Tenecian Empire was the Altherians who started causing resentment and dominating their neighbours through their skyships and dominance of trade (according to their story). However, there are many points which don’t seem to add up here. For one, according to the timeline in the Codex Arcanis the First Gift was granted in the LAST year of the Tenecian Empire, and as such would not have been involved in its rise (though it could very well be responsible for its fall). It is possible that like the Assyrians in our world, the last year of their empire was actually the height of their power, which means that the First Gift rose them to REAL empire status and their rapid fall from grace, but this does not mesh with the Altherian timeline. Their history says it took them years to build their ‘trade empire’ and the flying city of Khafre’, which means that this likely occurred between -120 IC and -35 IC. Additionally, if you were to trust the Altherians, their empire was not tyrannical, but merely them abusing their gift for material gain of wealth and economic domination than political or military. However, the Altherian view may be VERY biased, so this must be taken with a grain of salt.

Another thing to separate the Altherian people from the Tenecians is that of language. Henry has stated before that the Altherian people—as the chosen of Althares—have maintained the Altharin tongue of the First Imperium as a form of worship to their God. However, as stated above the Tenecian peoples appeared to use their own unique tongue and alphabet distinct from (though possibly related to) the neighbouring languages of Altharin, Myrantian, Triduaean/High Coryani, Kion, Harnen, or Unden. This suggests that the Tenecian people are NOT the Altherian people, but there may be more to this story than that. If the Tenecians WERE the Altherians, and they appealed to Althares to save them from their empire falling in -120 IC, then perhaps they instituted a law that as thanks to Althares they took His gift to mankind as their own. This would not be unheard of in Arcanis lore, with examples such as the Dwarven acceptance of worship of the Pantheon after Illiir cursed them (they were allied before, but I found no mention of the Celestial Giants worshipping the Pantheon).

Another strange aspect of the Tenecians is how they are treated by the Mother Church of Coryan. Despite claims by a number of people in the campaign, the Mother Church is actually one of the most liberal bodies in all of the Known Lands and beyond, seeking to absorb people into believing the Pantheon rather than forcing dogma upon them at sword-point. Sure, they have an Inquisition, but the Mother Church (historically) has tried to incorporate Yhing Hir, Myrantian, Unden, and Kio religious practices into their own canon, assigning one of the Pantheon to their unique gods and worship practices (such as Mahumemnon as Neroth, Tzitzet as Sarish, etc). For the Mother Church to straight up consider even the excavation of these ruins as forbidden suggests it has a VERY good reason to do so. These people apparently had strange and dangerous knowledge and secrets, and it is thought by the Altherian “Seekers of Forbidden Lore” that these secrets threaten the existence of the Mother Church. This actually sits reasonably well with the Tenecians being an “Altharian nation”, with possibly some Sarish in there, as it is the followers of those two gods who seem to actively seek out knowledge and secrets. Perhaps the Tenecians were simply AN Altherian nation, not THE Altherian nation?

Whatever the source of the Tenecians were, they seemed to be an interesting people. Their empire lasted barely a single human lifetime, but it resonated enough with the Coryani church that even more than a century later their name was mud with the establishment. They were able to rise in a period of the still powerful (but apparently failing) Myrantian Hegemony (centred in Abessios, if I read correctly), with the Kio nations being more than 500 years old across the sea from them as well. The lands that they inhabited also may have been one of the few ‘core’ places of the Coryani Empire which were conquered (like Abessios and arguably the Hinterlands) due to the lack of details on their incorporation, which also suggests that there may be even more history here than we thought.

_________________
Cody Bergman
Legends of Arcanis Campaign Staff
Initial Author Contact/Adventure Vetting

Haakon Marcus val'Virdan, Divine Holy Judge of Nier
Ruma val'Vasik, Martial Crusader and Master of the Spear
Jorma Osterman, Arcane Coryani Battlemage


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 Post subject: Re: Musings of a Canadian Nierite. . .
PostPosted: Mon Aug 31, 2015 11:34 pm 
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I've known about the probable Tenecian/Altherian connection for some time. But I hadn't considered that the ban on digging in Tenecian ruins was because they might threaten the Mother Church. I always thought that they had the potential to alter the balance of power to which ever factions exploited them...your theory is worth consideration.

Henry has stated in multiple places that only the modern timeline is reliably accurate (say since the founding of the Coryani Empire)...that the Tenecian and Altherian timelines don't perfectly synch up doesn't mean much. They are roughly congruent which, with what we know as players, is about as close as we confidently get.

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Eric Gorman

AKA Ambassador Tukufu, man of letters, tomb raider and Master Sword Sage
. . . and Sir Szymon val'Holryn, Order of the Phoenix
Formerly Sir Jaeger val'Holryn. Weilder of the Holy Avenger: Thonanos. Gave his soul to help free King Noen


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 Post subject: Re: Musings of a Canadian Nierite. . .
PostPosted: Sat Oct 10, 2015 3:10 pm 
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I have spoken fairly extensively about my theories about the Vals, but I started to think about something that we still don't know much about (which, admittedly, is quite extensive): How did the Val families proliferate so quickly? This is a subject I have covered in various previous musings on my part, but I figured I would dedicate another post on them.

According to the official storyline, the Val lineages derive from individual humans who were deemed worthy by the various Gods to receive the 'blessing' of their Valinor (however that blessing was granted). From the Canceri Sourcebook, the story holds that each of the Val family names is derived from the given name of the first member of the family, as evidenced by "Lord Virdan" and "Lady Emman", the siblings who were the twin chosen of Nier after Nier's first choice (their father, as I recall) was killed in the God's War. If this is true, then it means that all the Vals of a given family are the products of this single individual, which brings up many issues regarding the rate of proliferation of humanity. While males can spread their seed, so to speak, wide and rapidly, female Vals are far more restricted in how quickly they can pass on their genes/blessing (likely no more than 2 offspring in any given year). This means, realistically, it could take generations to produce any realistic number of Vals.

Luckily for the "First Val Families" at least, there was some 500 years for them to establish themselves before the Blood War set in. This means there is some 15 generations to expand these clans within the greater human race. Assuming a starting population growth rate of 0.012 (1.2%), this means that in 500 years there would be almost 800 members of each of these families, baring accidents, war, disease, and other accidents. While this doesn't seem like much for people to engage in a "war" with, presumably all the various Val clans had their vassal families at this point, which means that even with less than 1,000 individual vals of any given family, there was likely tens of thousands of followers that they could call on to prosecute their war.

There are two interesting datapoints in regards to the proliferation of the Val families: 1) it has been stated somewhere (can't find the reference currently) that the first few generations of Vals "bred true", drastically increasing their population in a short time, and 2) that the Serenity of Beltine was able to 'imbue' multiple individuals simultaneously with Val powers and heritage. This means that the first generations of vals may have increased in population faster than the generic 1.2% growth rate I was using in the previous paragraph. The second could suggest that, maybe, there wasn't only a single 'founding member' of a family, but a number of related (or even unrelated) individuals were 'imbued' simultaneously, drastically increasing the population growth rate as well. To give you an idea, assuming Vals bred true all the way up to the Blood War, simply increasing the starting population from 1 to 10 means that in 500 years you get almost 4,000 individuals instead of 800!

An interesting study on early val population dynamics can be found in another more-modern Val family: the val'Hamen. According to Shadows of a Forsaken Past, the val'Hamen were created to fight the Infernals who were set loose at the start of the Time of Terror. By the end of the Time of Terror, there were enough of these val'Hamen to man an entire legion (let us say, 800 to 1,200 individuals) after decades of warfare! This means that, exclusive deaths from war and assuming an average of the 1.2% population increase (which I think is generous if the whole family is at war), this means that to get to the minimum of 800 people for a 'legion' within the 35 years ot the Time of Terror, you would need a starting population of just over 500 people! This is an almost insane number. As the previous examples go, you would need 500 or so years to get to this number from a single individual. In fact, I would go so far to say that the val'Hamen would (to maintain their population through the war before being locked away in their castle) may have had to have been created as far back as the Fall of Myrantis when the curse on the Sorcerer-King first was uttered 1,400 years before, though this would yield almost 18 MILLION individuals by the end of the Time of Terror.

All this being said, it shows you the kind of problems faced by some of the 'endangered' val families of today. From what I recall, there were no more than 4 'human-kin' val'Sosi created when the Serenity of Beltine died (another was an Elorii and another was a Ss'ressen, from memory). This means in the past 50 years that each of them may have been able to pass their genes down to maybe two generations, meaning you could probably still count the members of this family on digits that (the) God(s) gave you. With a world population of humans numbering likely in the hundreds of millions, they are quite literally no more than a drop in the bucket. The val'Vasik are down to something like 50 individuals, many of whom are adventuring and involved in the protection of their people and Milandir. This would slow the rebuilding of their family, which could take decades to recover. This could also suggest that the missing 20-ish families that were the victims of the Blood War may still exist. If a single individual survived, they would have over 4,000 years to reestablish their population. This could explain the continued existance of the val'Haupt (known to have been one of the victimized families of the Blood War), and raise interesting questions about the val'Cessari if they were also one of these victimized families and simply went into hiding all these decades.

This does, however, bring up a few questions for me. One is how prominent are the Vals in the greater human population. All adventures and books indicate that basically every human and most non-human individuals are aware of who and what the Vals are. All vals have the distinctive eyes which set them apart from the rest. So, in the case of families like the Haupt who fled the Blood War, how do you remain incognito? Some psionic vals could alter their appearance but only a small population have the mental discipline to master such skills. Additionally, each family has a fairly distinct physical appearance which would make identification even easier. The val'Emman were only able to get away with it due to a common heritage (reportedly) between the Virdan and Emman which meant they were almost physically identical. Even if the Vals fled to an area where they were unknown and eventually people forgot about their family entirely, they would still appear distinct from the 'known' Val familes, causing them to stand out like sore thumbs to more knowledgeable Vals. As such, how often do Heroes pass through villages on the outskirts of civilization where people have val eyes and do not appear to have any easily identifiable family traits?

Anyway, just some random thoughts that were passing through my head.

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Cody Bergman
Legends of Arcanis Campaign Staff
Initial Author Contact/Adventure Vetting

Haakon Marcus val'Virdan, Divine Holy Judge of Nier
Ruma val'Vasik, Martial Crusader and Master of the Spear
Jorma Osterman, Arcane Coryani Battlemage


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 Post subject: Re: Musings of a Canadian Nierite. . .
PostPosted: Sat Oct 10, 2015 6:57 pm 
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As always interesting speculation.

I would not use the val'Hammen as a "typical" data set to extrapolate from. Shadows of the Forsaken Past was an awesome and sometime bizarre adventure that led to the recovery and wide dissemination of Tempered Sarishian Steel. But after time to think it over, I'm not sure that the val'Hammen are still cannon. There are elements from the Sealed Land that changed with editions such as Xabal changing from the Patience of Sarish to the Patience of Illiir...and the bloodline powers of the val'Vasik changing as well. (I believe Henry will tell you Xabal was always the Patience of Illiir but the "objective" and "subjective" information streams got crossed somewhere).

But otherwise much of your speculation is interesting. I personally believe that more than one "founder" was chosen because that makes sense to me ... I think the name attached itself after the fact to whoever united the family under "their" name. Since we know that there were more than one family per god (perhaps on a basis of different valinor bestowing blesings) I think we can dismiss the traditional story of "one chosen follower" ie. Tensen (or Virdan or Emman in the case of Nier...).

I also think/agree that initially (while the Gods and Valinor still hanging around) that the Val bred true. We don't know when that stopped, but if I was running a home campaign I think I would set that time around the point where the gods left.

My guess would be that "Tensen" or "Virdan" or whoever united their faction had the privelledge of naming their "dynasty."

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Eric Gorman

AKA Ambassador Tukufu, man of letters, tomb raider and Master Sword Sage
. . . and Sir Szymon val'Holryn, Order of the Phoenix
Formerly Sir Jaeger val'Holryn. Weilder of the Holy Avenger: Thonanos. Gave his soul to help free King Noen


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 Post subject: Re: Musings of a Canadian Nierite. . .
PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2015 4:16 pm 
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How about a brief aside about law enforcement in the Coryani Empire?

I was listening to a lecture on the subject of Criminal activity in Ancient Rome (focusing mostly on the Republic from examples, but a lot about the Imperial period too), and once again I had the thought to compare it to the familiar nation of Coryan. The more I listen to the lecture, the more I see incongruities to our own almost-Roman-like nation in the Arcanis universe, but also a few interesting things which thus far have not been well explained in adventures or sourcebooks. I don't think I'm alone in desperately wanting a "Historica Geographica: Coryani Empire" to enter the queue to complement existing documents like the Theocracy of Canceri, Ssethregore, and forthcoming Blessed Lands book, but until we get such a definitive document we are left to ponder and guess.

So guess I shall!

First off, I will admit that I am basing some of this supposition off one of my own adventures (specifically, "Purity, Fraternity, Justice"). When I was writing that adventure Henry and I sparred somewhat to fit my own views of how the Coryani Judiciary would work vs. what he had in mind on the subject. What ended up was (of course) far closer to his view, but I think I added my own flavour to the system for a little bit of fluff. This post will delve more into the "what I think", which I fully understand may be entirely antithetical to what Henry wishes.

In the early Roman Empire period, as well as that of the Civil War-era Roman Republic, justice in Rome was both very simple, and also almost mindbogglingly difficult for us to get our minds around. During this period there was no police force (or City Watch), there were no Lawyers, there were few defined legal codes (the prominent being the Twelve Tables) compared to our own voluminous legal tomes, and there were no official courts as we know them. If you were accused of committing a crime, you were not innocent until presumed guilty, and in many cases you were not incarcerated until convicted. This means that a great many accused criminals fled the city rather than face justice (or even their trials).

Roman law as we know it started at the beginning of the Republic with their 12 Tables Law Code, which was based on the Athenian Laws of Solon. No copies of these 12 legal tomes survive, so we are not entirely certain about what they exactly dealt with, but modern scholars believe that they mostly dealt with civil procedure and private law. The Athenian system that it was based on utilized jury trials for the accused (drawn up from all the Citizens of Athens, meaning the enfranchised men with Athenian citizenship) who decided their fate via democratic vote. The Roman system first started showing professional jurists (Magistrates, and especially Praetors) around 300 BCE, taking over that role from individuals such as priests. These magistrates and praetors made decisions on legal issues, and these decisions typically acted as the basis for further decisions from their successors. Eventually, these jurists began acting as both judge as well as advisor in the way a Lawyer may today, though these praetors did not advise the plaintiff or defendant in court. For what we believe is the stereotypical role of a lawyer today was handled either by the party involved with the case (in many cases, the defendant being tried by the people) who would defend themselves or via someone who would basically be a speech-writer/giver. Many philosophers would use rhetoric in their own defence and in the defence of those who hired them to help sway the jurists and a jury away from a guilty verdict.

Now, moving on to Coryan, we see a few notable differences. To start with, all the major cities (and many of the smaller towns!) seem to operate at least a volunteer Watch. These are civic-minded individuals and/or individuals employed by the local government to keep law and order. These groups did not exist in Roman times (or almost any other ancient society), and represent a much more modern view of law enforcement which has coloured fantasy writers for decades. In Roman times the role of the police was handled by the slaves of rich individuals who would dispense justice for themselves. The Romans, especially in the Civil War era of the Republic, operated almost as a mafia-type system, with wealthy patrician patrons protecting their clients using their own resources. In fact, there came a time in the era of Julius Caesar where crime was used as a form of political terrorism, but since Rome didn't have a 'city guard' (there were laws banning soldiers from entering the city in fact) the city degenerated into what we would now call gang warfare. Later, the Praetorian Guard was present within Rome during the Empire, but these were agents of the Emperor for the Emperor, not the people.

Coryan, on the other hand, does not have laws or traditions restricting the presence of troops in the capital. There is the Legion of Vigilance stationed in the Imperial Palace itself, and there is a large City Watch at least vaguely similar to the Gold Cloaks of Kings Landing in the works of George R.R. Martin. These city watchmen are outfitted as Coryani auxiliaries or even legionnaires, and serve a number of purposes. The most obvious of these are being a militia force to defend the city in case of attack, but from various adventures they seem to be far more focused on the enforcement of laws, the punishment of criminals, and the investigation of crimes. This last one is especially unique, as in ancient cultures in our world it was almost impossible to truly investigate crimes as it was almost entirely a 'he said, she said' argument. This is less noticable in Arcanis, however, due to the existance of dozens of investigative techniques, many of them magical. Considering the greater historical record and the 'developed' nature of human culture, however, finding a more advanced and developed form of law enforcement makes sense. After all, in our world all these cultures were trying out brand new systems and techniques, or building off rumors or half-understood documents of previous civilizations. In Arcanis, the Coryani legal system would have thousands of years of developed, possibly God-given (literally), laws and procedures to produce what we would call a fully formed system.

Moving away from simple policing, we know that like Rome, Coryan maintains a secular legal system of magistrates to try cases. Unlike Rome, these magistrates are not simply individuals who use a rough guide of common laws to render individual decisions, but part of a large bureaucracy sponsored by the government. These law courts maintain (compared to Rome) meticulous records of crimes and uphold common law to a far more narrow degree. What we do not know (as far as I can recall) is if the Coryani system utilizes jurors or lawyers by our understanding of the terms. Are all trials only heard by a magistrate, and that individual both judges and sentences you?

Also, while Rome started off its jurists as being priests, Coryan (and other human nations) have the rather touchy subject of their own strong divine tradition even to this day. While the law courts are secular, the Empire recognizes (once again) the worship of Nier, the Lord Justicar of the Gods. Followers of Nier crave justice, and many (such as the Holy Judges of Nier) even go so far to act as roving vigilantes. Further complicating things, after the banning of Nierite Worship in the 300's I.C., many of the roles previously filled by Nierites (such as the Inquisition) were filled by Illiirites (God of Truth) and Sarishans (God of Oaths), which add further religious forces which appear at odds with the secular bureaucracy of the Imperial Courts. How is this divide reconciled?

One way to reconcile this is that while Magistrates are secular officials, they receive their training from Nierite, Illiirite, or Sarishan priests/initiates. This is similar to what evolved with the magistrates and praetors in Rome, just changing the dynamic to a more religious one. This seems reasonable to me as Coryan (and all human, Arcanis nations) are a lot more religious than the Romans are, and that the religion in Coryan is a separate body from the state. In Rome, remember, the position of High Priest is actually an elected or appointed one, and that Roman (and Greek) Priests were actually what we consider a part-time job. They would officiate ceremonies, but as soon as they removed their vestments they were not required to continue to act as a priest. Additionally, should Coryan actually have lawyers, it would probably not be unheard of to have a priest or initiate as at least an adviser to your case, even if they do not argue it for you in court.

But what of the Holy Judges? Well, this is still a Holy Champion Order that I grapple with even when playing the game. My personal Character is one of these holy vigilantes, which means that it is a very important question to me. From what I've seen, a Holy Judge is recognized by the Church as a champion of RELIGIOUS justice in the Empire, but not necessarily by the civil bureaucracy. They travel the lands acting as jurists when there are no Imperial officials present, or if the crime at hand doesn't warrant the attention of such an official. They hunt down those who actively seek to poison the minds of the faithful from the True Gods (ie: humans worshipping the elements, the Myrantian deities, etc), and dispense summery justice in combination or in opposition to the Inquisition. We also know, though, that they do act as the Batmans (Batmen?) of the Arcanis Universe. We have one canon example of a Holy Judge fighting in the Arena of Grand Coryan, 'judging' the slaves and criminals who are thrown into that Arena for their crimes. If they survive, than the Holy Judge deems than innocent, and is known to actually set them free of their enslavement and incarceration. There are also cases of Holy Judges stalking those who escaped justice, such as by corruption, Batman- or Daredevil-style. I would expect that the secular City Watches of the locations with such Holy Judges would be just as torn as the police forces in New York or Gotham City. On one hand, they are completely going against the ordered society and need to be stopped, but on the other they are providing a means to punish those who can afford to bribe their way to innocence.

Punishment is also something else which is probably very different in Coryan compared to Rome. In Rome, people were rarely incarcerated for more than a few days. The Romans considered jails to be a waste of resources, which meant that other punishments were preferred. High among these were execution (such as via the much-loved crucifixion, but also including being thrown to the beasts in the arenas), physical punishment (whipping, cutting off of hands, branding, etc), exile from the Empire, or being sold into slavery (such as becoming a gladiator). The few individuals who were kept in prisons long term were usually there not as punishment, but as showpieces in Triumphs (basically, victory parades) to show how awesome the Empire is. An example of this is the Celtic leader Vercingetorix. I should also note that this was a very common practice in other cultures, including the United States with individuals such as Geronimo just over a century ago. Many of the punishments of Rome (much like Greece) were either perminent (ie: execution) or social in nature (such as disenfranchisement), the latter of which was a far more shameful punishment as societies like Rome and Greece identified much more with the community than we do today, so becoming a social outcast was a terrible punishment indeed.

Coryan, on the other hand, seems to follow a much more modern sense when it comes to punishment. While we know the Coryani use slaves and execute criminals, these rarely are shown 'on screen' in mods. The main reason for this, I'm sure, is that these mods are written to those with modern sensibilities, which means that players would be insulted by watching an NPC suffer 'cruelly' or 'unusually' by our morals. In Rome, the crucifixition of a criminal would be viewed as an every day event, and few if any Romans questioned the institution of slavery (this is backed up by historical records from what I've looked into), and the vast majority of Romans (and certainly the Greeks) would be even more horrified by Gnomes and Dark-kin than we 'enlightened' modern folk. However, we are NOT Roman, or Coryani (or Elorii, or Ss'ressen, or Milandisian, etc) which means we PLAYERS find such things offensive. This means that there are more exiles and incarcerations in Arcanis lore than would be found in ancient civilizations.

Anyway, just a few thoughts while I was listening to a lovely audiobook about 'terrible' ancient cultures :P

_________________
Cody Bergman
Legends of Arcanis Campaign Staff
Initial Author Contact/Adventure Vetting

Haakon Marcus val'Virdan, Divine Holy Judge of Nier
Ruma val'Vasik, Martial Crusader and Master of the Spear
Jorma Osterman, Arcane Coryani Battlemage


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 Post subject: Re: Musings of a Canadian Nierite. . .
PostPosted: Fri Oct 23, 2015 1:41 am 
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Nierite wrote:
How about a brief aside about law enforcement in the Coryani Empire?

LOL. Brief? :P

I agree with you that the Coryani system of law enforcement does not really resemble the system in place during the Roman Republic/transition to Empire. But I don't think its all that far from the golden age of the Empire. The Republic was a time of great upheaval. On my list* of the 11 major figures of the End of the Republic all but one died of violence (or committed suicide rather than face their captivity/punishment at the hands of their enemies). By comparison, even with the Civil War, Coryan is a beacon of stability.

Also like you I am not wild about the term "Civic Guards" and wish we instead had the Vigiles (mostly concerned with fires at night and riffraff that aren't bright enough to stay out of their way during their patrols), the Urban Cohort (for dealing with public unrest or apprehending powerful figures) and the Legions (for riot control and quashing other assorted cluster- - - - -). Nobles all have slaves, guards, and clients that act on their behalf. Gangs rule as much of the rest. If I had unlimited scope and was running a home game that's how I would set it up. Its not my home campaign, and City/Civic Guards are a common trope. Not all writers in the past are interested in deep research of Roman Society (though I am gratified that many good ones are).

We have city guards as an additional "provider" of order in this campaign. I have no doubt they are over-worked, under-paid and superseded by the rich and powerful on a regular basis. Of course there are also ecclesiastical authorities and the boundaries between secular and religious laws aren't always clear. This can make some situations even murkier...

Nierite wrote:
But what of the Holy Judges? Well, this is still a Holy Champion Order that I grapple with even when playing the game. My personal Character is one of these holy vigilantes...

Here i differ with you. Later you also refer to the Holy Judges as "Batman" or "Daredevil" type figures. I don't think this is true. (I think that better describes the Twilight Warriors of Cadic who really are vigilantes). Although a Holy Judge no doubt deals with active cultists on the spot, I don't think they generally assert themselves when there are "proper" secular or religious authorities in place. Instead I believe the role of the Holy Judge is essentially to fight corruption (in religious matters and in civic procedure).

The Path in A:RPG states that they "ensure that divine law is obeyed and that those that follow false or lesser gods do not contaminate the faithful." That's important because I think that means an adventuring elorii priest of Belisarda is probably left alone. (Or an Ehtzarta in the wastelands of the Hinterlands). But if one or the other starts trying to recruit converts among the faithful then a Holy Judge should act. That's the religious side of their role.

The Path also says that "Holy Judges are also highly sought after in passing judgment on more mundane matters in areas and communities where magistrates or other officials are few and far between." This agrees with the old campaign write ups that say that they are respected by the common people. I think this is because they don't go in pronouncing summary judgment and enacting flaming decapitation, but actually hold hearings where all sides are heard before judgement. This was seen in one of the modules of the old campaign where a Holy Judge sets up a court to deal with a touchy issue no one wants to deal with and assembles the PCs to be advocates for or against the defendant.

The Path in A:RPG doesn't explicitly say so, but I believe that Holy Judges should also be concerned with serious cases of Magisterial Corruption.

Neirite wrote:
We have one canon example of a Holy Judge fighting in the Arena of Grand Coryan, 'judging' the slaves and criminals who are thrown into that Arena for their crimes. If they survive, than the Holy Judge deems than innocent, and is known to actually set them free of their enslavement and incarceration.

I don't remember this. There was Father Mayhem in Freeport who operated this way. But he wasn't working out of the Grand Arena. (And frankly wasn't on all four corners with MC teachings...not surprising since he was created by Green Ronin not PCI). Can you cite the module where this happens?

On punishment:

Neirite wrote:
Coryan, on the other hand, seems to follow a much more modern sense when it comes to punishment. While we know the Coryani use slaves and execute criminals, these rarely are shown 'on screen' in mods. The main reason for this, I'm sure, is that these mods are written to those with modern sensibilities,

Probably true. And I'm okay with this.

* Julius Caesar, Milo, Clodius, Cicero, Pompey, and Crassus were all killed in battle, ambush or assassination. Cato the Younger, Marc Antony, Cleopatra, and Brutus all committed suicide rather than face captivity, humiliation and possible torture. Octavian/Augustus is the *only* major figure who died of old age...though plenty of historians also think he was poisoned in the end by his wife. Put another way, the odd of you dying prematurely and horribly as a leader/major figure in the period is over 90%. Great period to write about. Terrible period to live through.

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. . . and Sir Szymon val'Holryn, Order of the Phoenix
Formerly Sir Jaeger val'Holryn. Weilder of the Holy Avenger: Thonanos. Gave his soul to help free King Noen


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 Post subject: Re: Musings of a Canadian Nierite. . .
PostPosted: Fri Oct 23, 2015 10:28 am 
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I will agree that the later Imperial period saw a much more advanced version of a legal system, but I am still loathe to call it modern. I also was not entirely fair on the Vigiles, mostly out of ignorance of their entire mandate (all I have read/heard about them focuses on their roll as firefighters). For reference, the Vigiles were created during the rule of Augustus/Octavian just after the Civil Wars (at the start of the Empire, even though it still called itself the Republic then) as firefighters, and these folk were little more than a bucket brigade. The police functions of the vigiles was known to exist a couple decades later as Night's Watch guards, though even then their official duty was looking for fires, with the preventing burglary and violence being a secondary function as part of their looking for fires (which were more common at night as people were lighting braziers and lanterns). The Vigiles ceased to be a city institution in the later Roman Empire (3rd century) and were absorbed into the Praetorian Guard.

I think it is entirely reasonable for the Holy Judges to be Batman-style vigilantes, though with a different flavour than the Twilight Warriors. The Twilight Warriors are concerned with evil people preying on the weak, while the Holy Judges would (aside from their religious law aspects) focus on justice being done. This is how I think of it: If a wealthy land owner was overcharging their serfs/clients/etc, a Twilight Warrior would kill the land owner even though what he was doing was entirely legal, but a Holy Judge probably wouldn't. Conversely, if a well-connected thief stole from that land owner and escaped justice because another landowner was using him as a weapon against the first land owner, the Holy Judge would target the thief who had escaped justice (and maybe the other land owner as a conspirator). In this example, the Twilight Warrior would probably ignore that problem as the person being preyed upon was themselves evil and they would feel it was their just rewards.

I could be entirely wrong. In my ideal world I would like to play my own Holy Judge in a more Judge Dredd-style, but thus far I haven't been able to because 1) most mods are not designed with such a character in mind, and 2) most players don't appreciate having another player steamroll their decisions by saying "I have jurisdiction here!"

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Cody Bergman
Legends of Arcanis Campaign Staff
Initial Author Contact/Adventure Vetting

Haakon Marcus val'Virdan, Divine Holy Judge of Nier
Ruma val'Vasik, Martial Crusader and Master of the Spear
Jorma Osterman, Arcane Coryani Battlemage


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 Post subject: Re: Musings of a Canadian Nierite. . .
PostPosted: Wed Oct 28, 2015 4:29 pm 
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Why isn’t there more contact?

It has come up in various conversations (both on these forums and off) as to why the people of the Known Lands do not know more about the world around them than they do. For example, despite there being a stable polity in the Coryani Empire for almost 1100 years dominating the area we know as the Known Lands, we still do not know what lies beyond the borders of regions such as Dar Zhan Vor, the City of Golems, and Uggur. Additionally, despite nations such as Coryan and Altheria maintaining strong (or, at least, reasonable) navies throughout these periods, we have no evidence of maritime trade or exploration past the Ssethric territories on the south coast of the Lauriol Sea. If these nations have existed for so long, why haven’t they explored more? Why aren’t there any First Imperium Maps remaining of these additional lands? Why haven’t the populations of these others lands contacted the people of the Known Lands themselves?

As I have explained in a previous essay, one of the main limitations on knowledge in the ancient world are the various barriers which make travel difficult. In that essay I mostly focused on geographic barriers such as lack of methods of travel and inferred physical barriers such as mountains and rivers (specifically to contrast land travel vs. sea travel), but these really only tell half the tale. In fact, looking at our own world, political boundaries often are far more devastating to the passage of knowledge, trade, and exploration than even the most stout of mountain ranges. There have been many times in our own world where knowledge of what lies beyond becomes lost over the eons of isolation. China, for example, was isolated from the rest of the world for thousands of years by four great barriers: The Pacific to the east, the mountains and deserts to the west, the jungles and mountains to the south, and the steppe nomads like the Xiongnu and Mongols to the north. While some of their population managed to travel out of and trade beyond these barriers, China was essentially an island for at least 2000 years until the Han Dynasty braved the Xiongnu steppe empire and helped create what we now know as the Silk Road about the same time as the Civil Wars which ended the Roman Republic.

Moving away from our own world, let us look at the Known Lands which surround the modern Coryani Empire. During the time of the First Imperium, these lands represented only the most eastern (known) provinces of that mighty empire. During this period, it is known that there were mighty forests in what is today Illonia which hampered the travel and exploration of the lands what are now Coryan and beyond, and were even used by the val’Assante’ line later to help protect their scions from death at the hands of Leonydas val’Virdan when they were hidden away in Midea Tridueae (modern Old Coryan). However, in the 1770 years following the fall of the First Imperium and the foundation of the Coryani Empire, the various communication networks which serviced the First Imperium fell into disuse, and ultimately after so long knowledge of anything over the next hill became lost and forgotten. While it is entirely possible that a person born in Cafela may have travelled to the First City during this period, such travels were extremely rare. Even more rare would be officially sponsored trade or exploration missions during this period, as most of the states of the Known Lands were little more than city states at the time, and likely did not have the resources to stage such grand foreign missions when they had purely local concerns to deal with (political infighting, warlords, raiding bands of Yhing Hir horsemen, etc).

Let us now travel to the Known Lands in 33 B.I.C., the just before the Time of Terror which lead to the formation of the Coryani Empire. As of this time, the region which we know as the Known Lands (or the Southern Lands, as the Khitani seem to think of them) contains a number of city states and small nations with the largest known state being that of the Myrantian Hegemony. In the south we have the Ssethregoran Empire, including its colonies on the southern shore of the Lauriol Sea. These lands, together with the equally hostile to human life area of Uggar to the west and south of the Kio-dominated Western Lands, formed a major political barrier to any human occupied nation in this region. Near as we can tell there was no trade existing with either region or nation, and both nations seemed hostile to their human neighbours. While the Ssethrics seem to not directly hamper sea traffic between the Sea of Coryan and the Sea of Yarris, the lack of information of the lands beyond their colonies to the south does suggest that they (or someone else) do hamper exploration beyond that point. This means that the knowledge of what lies beyond has been lost to Known Lands scholars in the previous 2000 years, with the maps likely literally saying “Here, there be dragons.” Uggur seems just as mysterious as the lands beyond Ssethregore, implying that the war bands of Gar, Hyenamen, pixies, or whatever lives in those lands form a miltaristic barrier against any but the most cursory of penetrations into their lands as well.

Moving along the coast of Onara, you find another major barrier to the knowledge of the people of the Known Lands: The eastern Ocean. At this time the ocean is only known to consist of the Gulf of Yarris, the Pale Sea, and the Blasted Sea (also the Lauriol Sea, but that is more of a southern barrier). Any knowledge of the waters or lands beyond that appears to either be lost or was completely unknown even to the scholars of the First Imperium (possibly due to a lack of continents beyond the seas). Further compounding the problem are the presence of hostile naval powers in the form of the pirates which have long haunted the islands of the Blasted Sea and the Pale Sea, and the (Y)Mandrake Black Ships which stalk the waters of the Gulf of Yarris. Without any known lands beyond these waters to trade with or to act as resupply points, there was probably little desire to fund exploratory missions except in coastal waters, even into the more rich and powerful Coryani-era.

Moving to the west, we have even more physical barriers baring exploration and knowledge. Starting in the south you have the lands of Dar Zhan Vor, the former lands held by the powerful val’Emman clan which have since fallen into the hands of ostensibly dark powers. For all the history we have access to following the fall of the First Imperium, no expedition to these lands has survived, with only a few written accounts (such as those presented in the 3.5 Arcanis supplement “Psionics Unbound”) surviving to reach anyone’s eyes and ears. It is known that there are powerful entropic and psionic powers there, with the possibility of the Servants of the Silence even having large and established cities and forces there baring the passage of all but the Chauni people, who seem oddly immune to the predations of the region. Alas, as the Chauni are a secretive people without much love of the common Mandai humans of the Known Lands, not much else can be said of the region. Moving further north, you come across the physical boundry of the Corelathian Mountain range. While not an impenetrable mountain range by all accounts, it is still a major natural barrier that none but he most brave or foolhardy would dare attempt.

Continuing north, you come across the lands which are now Almeric and a small gap of non-hostile terrain which leads into the lands now known as the Blessed Lands. While this pass between the forest of the Elorii and the mountains may seem an easy path of exploration, remember that the Blessed Lands of the era were likely even more harsh and devastated than they currently are. By this point they had suffered almost 2000 years of inattention, which means that bandits, Kurenthe’-derived magical storms, and other threats bared the passage of almost all who wished to travel beyond its borders. This pass is similar to the Gobi desert and the lands of the Gansu in China: An ostensibly easy passage made impassable by the harsh terrain. North of that comes yet another massive barrier, that of the Vastwood and the Eloran nation of Elonbe’. As far as we can tell not even the First Imperium was able to penetrate the guarded woods of the Elorii nations after they followed the words of the Prophetess Ardelia and sought refuge in the blessed woods of Belisarda, and the time after the fall of that empire were no different. While we do have some information about expeditions entering the woods, especially in Sylvania and along Nier’s Spine, there are no known expeditions which have survived more than a few miles into that dark forest.

The final major barrier to the spread of knowledge in the Known Lands was also likely its major source of new knowledge of what lies beyond its borders: That of the wide steppes of the northern lands now called the Hinterlands and the Fiendish Expanse. While it seems confusing to say that it was both a barrier and a conduit, you have to understand the nature of steppe nomads in our history to see how this could work. During the 3,000 years of recorded history between the appearance of groups like the Scythians and the Mongols in our world, the steppes of central Asia (which run from Hungary in the west to Manchuria in the east) was arguably the greatest melting pot in all of human history. These open lands allowed for many different branches of humanity to commingle and allowed for fairly rapid movement of trade goods. However, it was also harsh, which meant that many of the people who lived there were more concerned with survival than with intellectualism and trade. From what we hear, the same is true in Arcanis as it was in our world. The horse tribes which lead to the creation of the Yhing Hir, the Auxunites, the Himmatah Riders, and the ancestors of the Tomal Khan of the First City lived in these lands before the raising of the God’s Wall mountains, trading, raiding, and generally surviving for as long as we have historical records. Every now and again they would form tribal confederacies and empires—such as the mighty Auxunite Empire—but at all other times they seemed content to simply follow their traditions of raiding and trading with their neighbours.

The period before the coming of the Infernals probably was the most successful time for the reconnection of the Known Lands of the east and south and the lands of the Khitani to the west and north. We know that the plains of the north stretched all the way from the northern Khitani province of Haina all the way to the city states of Milandisia, and that for some 400 years they were united by the Auxunite hoards. In fact, following the separation of the west (and north) from the east (and south) in the fall of the First Imperium, this was the first recorded empire in both the known annals of the Khitani and those who would become the Coryani, and likely was the genesis of the trade routes to the city of Censure which are operated by the Zhuan as something of a mirror of our own Silk Road. However, the Auxunites were not known to be a peaceful trading people like the Kushans or even the Persians were in our world, which means that while they bridged the gulf between the east and west of Onara, they did not exactly support the peaceful exploration of their territories. This was further exacerbated by the raising of the God’s Wall in 0 I.C., adding the most formidable of physical barriers to lock off even this one avenue of trade and contact.

Other barriers, of course, exist to further isolate the peoples of Onara from one another. The Fervidus Hills and Aqtau Mountains form a barrier between the Khitani and the Blessed Lands, acting to protect them from the intrusion of outsiders into their mighty realm. This barrier was even strong enough that it dissuaded the armies of Leonydas val’Virdan, though his apparent meeting with the presumed Valinor known as the Sleeping Emperor appears to be what further cemented his withdraw from that former portion of the Imperium. Khitan also seems to have a number of cultural objections to mixing with those of the Coryani-dominated east, such as the political separation of the Val race into the Vals and Uls. Finally, the hostile Sea of Lanterns (and the larger sea beyond it) and the high Khitau Mountains further block the spread of knowledge around the lands guarded by the Khitani. Only now, as the campaign shifts into the ‘middle lands’ (the equivalent of Transoxiana in the Silk Road of our days) of the Blessed Lands do we here of what lies beyond: The Andaii with their strange monotheistic religion, the Hunai tribes and their worship of Belisarda and two other unknown goddesses, the Godless Hoards which may be related to the horsetribes like the Yhing Hir but far more hostile, the Dalish Isles with their traders and strange cultural practices, the ancient Ossarions which may have threatened the First Imperium thousands of years past, and the various city states which now dot the lands far to the west which were once Ossarion or Khitani territories. However, like in the ancient times of our own world, little is known about these places, and their existence is considered to be little more than myths to even the learned of the Known Lands.

While Arcanis does have the Portal of Anshar to help explore, unless you are attuned to a specific portal you typically cannot travel through them. This means that at least modern Ansharans need to explore the lands by foot or ship to locate these far-off portals to add the knowledge of their existence to the greater people. With the fall of the First Imperium, the core of Ansharans who knew the most about these portals either were killed in the purges of the Theocracy of the Cleansing Flame, or likely simply disappeared into their portals to escape the fires of the val’Virdan. This may, indeed, be the genesis of the mysterious Legion of Grim Lamentations, as a matter of fact. Even if the location of these portals were known and there were Ansharans attuned to these portals, it is extremely costly to travel via portal, meaning that their use as avenues of trade and exploration are functionally zero, at least in our modern days. Even the various forms of teleportation magic beyond the portals are significantly limited.

But what about the desire to know? Why don’t the Coryani send emissaries to Khitan and spread that knowledge to all the peoples of the world? I once again ask you to look to our own world to see the answer to that question. For one, knowledge is power. If you have secrets from competing religions or nations, you can use that to your advantage. The entire Silk Road out of China was built upon their monopoly of Silk production which no other nation could reproduce due to the strict control over silkworms. The Persians denied access to Greek explorers for generations because of a hatred between the Persians and the Greeks, especially after the Battle of Marathon. The Muslim Ottomans banned trade along the Silk Road to Christian Europeans due to the differences in religion. Furthermore, to have potential rivals become familiar with your lands invites invasion. There are many MANY reasons why nations would not want to invite casual trade and travel.

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Cody Bergman
Legends of Arcanis Campaign Staff
Initial Author Contact/Adventure Vetting

Haakon Marcus val'Virdan, Divine Holy Judge of Nier
Ruma val'Vasik, Martial Crusader and Master of the Spear
Jorma Osterman, Arcane Coryani Battlemage


Last edited by Nierite on Wed Oct 28, 2015 6:29 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Musings of a Canadian Nierite. . .
PostPosted: Wed Oct 28, 2015 6:02 pm 
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As someone with an interest in World History (in particular East and Central Asia) kudos on a nice piece of writing. Well done sir.

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Haakon val'Ishi, Beltinian Exorcist 2.7 [Divine]
Ursula val'Holryn, Grand Master of the Tralian Hammer 2.2 [Martial]
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 Post subject: Re: Musings of a Canadian Nierite. . .
PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2015 6:26 pm 
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Not so much of an essay today, but closer to a true 'musing'. The reason for this is quite simple, in that there currently is no answer to this question.

What happened to Yig?

For those of you not aware, Yig is one of the two primordial Ssethric deities, said to be second only to Kassagore in both age and power. She is the patron of deceit, but also the bringer of life. What we also know is that She is one and the same with the modern, more familiar goddess of the Human Pantheon, Anshar. I would have added spoiler tags to this, but it has been an open secret for years among players and staff alike, and the ARPG flat-out tells players of it now so I feel no objection to stating it here. 99.9% of people in the universe (meaning almost all the players short of 'reborn' Heroes from the Kickstarter) would be aghast at such an association, with even the mention of such a theory likely to get you burned by any number of races and religions.

However, looking at the power-set of the two Goddesses, there doesn't appear to be much overlap in their portfolios. Yig is associated with being the Lifebringer, as well as a number of less-savory aspects such as lying, stealth, and even (to an extent) quickness (as related through her story of avoiding Kassagore's pursuit). Anshar, on the other hand, is the goddess of charity, travel, and pain. These seem different enough to suggest two different gods, which may, in fact, be what is happening here.

Some of this could be rationalized, I guess. The pain and suffering of Anshar could be related to Yig's desire for duplicity as deceit can often lead to pain, but this seems a bit of a stretch to me. I should note, however, that Larissa's descent into debauchery also seems out of character for the Oracular Goddess, so stranger things have happened. The role of traveler is easier to explain, owing to Yig's afore mentioned pursuit of Kassagore, but even then it seems generally unrelated to the Yig we all 'know' from books like Ssethregore. Additionally, the Ssethric accounts all list Yig's primary influence on their races as that of lifebringer, and this is an aspect very much not touched upon by the Humans with Anshar. Aside from imbuing the val'Inares directly, as far as I'm aware Anshar has not been credited with the granting of life to anything after she took on that guise.

So what happened? Well, one theory is that Anshar is Yig-rebranded, with a series of Her powers much more emphasized to separate her new followers from her old ones. We know that the Ssethrics co-existed with the First Imperium, so if Yig was too close to Anshar her 'gig' would be up fairly quickly. Another theory is that somehow during the God's War Yig was somehow 'changed', possibly similar to how Larissa was changed after she saw too far into the future.

However, rereading the Ssethregore book, I thought of another theory: What if Yig was wounded, and somehow split into to beings? Or, more bluntly, what if Anshar is but one half of Yig, and Belisarda is another? Thus far, Yig and Belisarda are the only two gods that I can think of directly called "life bringers." None of the Pantheon of Man are credited with that power, and neither is Kassagore (beyond the soul, anyway). However, it has been stated (fairly clearly, as I recall) that Yig and Belisarda are NOT the same being, but perhaps this is only half of a truth. If something happened to Yig and her essence was split in twain, then neither Anshar or Yig (or Belisarda) would be direct equivalents any longer, but distinct forces which have since forged their own identities.

Of course, this musing falls apart somewhat when we look at the official timeline of the world. According to Ssethregore, Belisarda was found some 7700 years ago, contact was lost with Yig about 6500 years ago, contact with Yig was reestablished 6000 years ago, and Anshar first appeared some 4800 years ago. For Belisarda to be a separated 'life-giving force of Yig', the having that life-force being separated while Yig was still around, and existing as contemporaries for some 1200 years seems farfetched.

Anyway, random theory. . .

_________________
Cody Bergman
Legends of Arcanis Campaign Staff
Initial Author Contact/Adventure Vetting

Haakon Marcus val'Virdan, Divine Holy Judge of Nier
Ruma val'Vasik, Martial Crusader and Master of the Spear
Jorma Osterman, Arcane Coryani Battlemage


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