Hello,

An elorii spirit, huh? Hmmm...they must be very rare as I've never seen evidence of such a thing outside of this one occurrence.

Strange...

The memory plays tricks, sir.
Could just be one of those at play in my grey meats.

Henry is reminding us that it is a well known fact there is no such things as Elorii ghosts/spirits.
When an Elorii dies his/her souls returns to the Orumar, and when the Elorii does a Kurenthe the soul is destroyed completely therefore unable to leave a ghost.
Henry is hinting to us that when that Elorii did his Kurenthe in Akrosia, something very different happened there to leave a ghost. We only have 3 other Kurenthe locations to compare it to. Seremas Bay, the Blessed Lands, and the Forgotten Wastes.
Or it wasn't an Elorii ghost at all, and someone else was watching the PCs.
Henry always keeps us guessing.

Here we go:

Encounter 10
Until Honor Is Restored
As you move closer to the city, you can see that the walls of Arkosia have been stained a deep brownish red. Some areas of the walls seem to have movement on them, though you cannot make out the details from here. Every so often, the ground trembles slightly, and you can hear the deep guttural growls of some massive creature in the distance. The grass closer to Arkosia shows the wear of heavy traffic, being worn completely away in several spots.
As you continue to move closer to the fortress, someone moves out from behind a ruin. It is an Elorii, one who towers high into the air much like Xerxes. His skin and robes alike are completely grey, as if all color had been drained from him. After a few moments, you realize that it is possible to look through him. He, in turn, seems to be looking directly at you, his expression grave and sad. “You must go back,” he says, his voice hollow. “I beseech you.”
Elorii PCs automatically know that there is never such a thing as an “Elorii ghost.” Any Elorii that dies returns to the Orumar to be reborn. For one of their people to be trapped as an undead is unthinkable – and terrifying.
Who are you?
“I am damned. But once, I was known as T’Lenauth, High Sorcerer of Arkosia.”
Why must we turn back?
“I would not have you throw your lives away by marching into the Ssethregoran Pit. I will not allow any more to die because of my shame.”
I thought that there were no Elorii ghosts?
“I betrayed my goddess and gave away her most precious gift; my life. When I called upon the blood curse, I doomed us all. Elorii and men, even the forest itself, all suffered because of my hate. And so I am now cursed to this place. I cannot leave, nor can I stem the ever-flowing chaos that seeps from the sore I placed upon the earth. I can only watch, and warn, and mourn.”
Why did you call upon the death curse?
“Humanity’s treachery had forced us back. We were not ready for our new friends to turn against us. They took us by surprise and struck savagely, but we are not so easily defeated. We regrouped and met the armies of man head on… and then it was their turn to rout. It was in their darkest moment that these traitors, these Men, called upon their usurper gods and beseeched them for help.
“The skies opened up, and the winged Valinor hosts fell upon us. The slaughter began anew, and we fell back to the forests. Arkosia was one of our last strongholds. The Valinor and their humans came here to finish what they had started, to put an end to our people. The rubble you see all around you is a result of that war.
“They tore through our gates and washed Arkosia with our blood. They were relentless and without mercy… and my hate for them was so strong that I invoked the Kurenthe and turned their treacherous souls back upon them. The armies of man fell upon each other with the same savagery they had shown in attacking us. Many ran in fear as the rest slew one other. The invading army shattered and fell to pieces.
“But this was no victory. Half of my people abandoned the city, fearing what the blood curse would bring. Those that stayed behind were soon driven mad, and turned upon each other as the humans had. And as for me… I am bound here, to see my handiwork and dwell upon my crime.
“Now that you have heard my tale, you must turn back. I can not allow you to go further.”
Is there anything that we can do to free you?
“Every day I hear my own words whispered on the wind…'until honor is restored'. I know that is the key to my curse. Belisarda must forgive me. This is why I wish you no harm, not even the humans. I have done enough evil for a hundred lifetimes, and it will take a hundred more for me to atone.” He then turns and looks back towards the fortress. “They are coming soon. Leave NOW. Go!”

I don't guess -if I have alternatives.

Hello Zac,

You're making an assumption. You're assuming that what the entity is telling you is the truth.

And you know what happens when you assume.

True, but it's as good a source as any other (ie; zero alternatives) and I prefer to move away from total ignorance as a rule.

He's also the one who pronounced his own Kurenthe, which gives him a certain authority on the subject.

That said, it's entirely possible that we think he's a "ghost" because there isn't a better frame of reference for his circumstances. Notably he doesn't contradict the questioner about his that when he hears, "I thought that there were no Elorii ghosts."

Problem is the "so what?"

If he's not a genuine ghost, an unquantified thing unto itself, then A) what is he, B) what's the difference and C) what does that matter?

It could be that a genuine ghost is so because it's explicitly the soul of a dead person missing from it's appointed date with the Cauldron.
In that case there could be no true Elorii ghosts because they do not head that way after corporeal separation.

T’Lenauth also understands the term "ghost" and offers no reciprocal term or correction, so if it's not the exact right fit it's close enough for the purposes of his tragic history and consequent dire warning.

It looks like a difference without a distinction.

Edit: oh, right yeah I missed that -yeah, I get your angle now, Henry.

Though again we're back where we started. If he's lying what about, why, and so what?

It's not like I'm disinterested, just that doubt and $2 gets you a cheap cup of coffee. The insinuation of deceptions and secrets in the absence of evidence is just busy work for electrons.

Hello Zac,

You're absolutely right. So what?

Nothing, I suppose.

Sorry to have wasted your time with this.

One of my favourite things about this campaign is the fact that we are kept guessing. I enjoy the fact that historical information presented in the rulebooks is written from a bias, and that we can't assume everything written is correct. It lends a level of realism to the campaign that many fantasy settings lack.

It can occasionally be a little frustrating to not know, and we have to trust that Uncle Henry will eventually reveal all, but in the meantime it can be fun to wonder. You not only have to think about what was said, but also who said it and why they said it. Many times throughout the life of the campaign Henry has alluded to things that are going to happen years down the road, and it is only looking back upon it after the fact that it becomes clear what he was talking about.

Ok, in the interest of decency I've deleted 800 words of rambling meta-discourse that aimed to amuse as much as debate -and that probably would in person, but probably wouldn't online.

Sir.

Am I missing some subtle message here?

The triggering question was "are there Elorii ghosts?"

I said yes, because I could remember one.

I then conceded that I might have my citation wrong.

With some research I provided the relevant passage.

I was informed that I'm making possibly erroneous assumptions, and then gave offense.

........

What am I missing? Were you hinting that some lore, like that bit from Pebble Upon Still Waters, may be gone now? Are there now truly no undead Elorii?

Not IC, not "what everybody knows," but as in a genuine impossibility?

I once heard that someone important in the campaign staff really disliked that crazy Ardakene Technomancer Lobsang.

So is she gone, too? Retroactively never happened because she was a bad idea and we should forget about her?

Cuz I really want to discuss theories and speculate about topics like what Cody's come up with, but I'm not sure that I wasn't just told to not bother because I risking perpetrating an assumption based on information I don't have or didn't see.

Please. Help me out here.

I got involved to supply some info about what old campaign mod had information about Arkhosia. I did so. The topic became "maybe that's not what happened," so I went and got more specific to provide what's literally available to players.

And then got warned off.

I didn't mean to be rude; I never do -if I'm going to give offense I'm not bother with sniping at someone when I can go straight to the DefCon 6 (I know there is no real DefCon 6) of ...nevermind what, and that someone would absolutely not be Henry "Illir calls me Sir" Lopez.

If I've got that big a problem I take it to someone in PM's or I deal with it offline -no question.

I know Arcanis is a setting built on mystery, misdirection, and myths. Yeah, that's sometimes frustrating.

But I'm lost, boss. I'm past frustrated and into totally bewildered. What did I miss?

Now that's a much more well edited post!

I also believe that in *exceptional* circumstances eloran souls may be diverted from the Ourumar. At Winter Fantasy of 2004 (Lo now 11 long long years ago) the low level special table from Sibling Rivalry rescued a Kelekene named Alendros who sent them just within the edge of the Vastwood to a small "Kurenthe Pocket" where time was out of whack. There I'm told the PCs interacted with Eloran & Nierite spirits trapped in an endless recycling battle, ended the curse and freeing the spirits of both sides to go to their final rest.

I was not at the table, but someone at a con told me about this alleged event, so I have an old set of notes on it. Its the only time I've ever heard any words that the effects of a Kuerenthe could be ended by "mortal level" intervention. Its possible no one who has heard of this event believes it. Or its possible that someone was pulling my leg ... but offhand I doubt that's so.