I'm curious Steve, how did Ss'kethis get Divine Spellcasting? Because I thought it was clear in the rulebook that a male cannot take the Divine Archetype. So I assume you picked it up elsewhere?

DSC is the easiest spell casting to "poach" without the Divine Archetype. You can get it through 2 backgrounds at creation (Initiate of the Gods and Templar) and numerous Paths.

My Crusade arc character was a Martial Templar of Nier who got access to DSC through Templar...

I assumed that's how he got it Eric but I was curious if he took it at any other point in or after character creation. I'm interested to see how he built the character. As for his point about the clarification and impact on long played characters I see both sides of the issue.

Hello,

We (the LA Staff and I) had a long talk about this last night at our meeting and this was the best and clearest way to settle the whole gender schism that has been giving people conniptions.

If this causes issues with some characters, I'm sorry, but this is the ruling - one which will be written into the new Ssethregore book.

To paraphrase Obi Wan Kenobi..."conniptions, that's a term I've not heard in a long time....a long time." Thanks Henry!

P.S. I remember my mom using that term, bet she still does.

And if anybody's wondering no I'm not picking on Henry's age I still have at least eight years on him, so I'm allowed a "senior moment." I'm complimenting his use of a word I don't see too often that has great connotations.

But there were no conniptions around male Ss'ressen Templars of the Fire Dragon with DSC. Up until Cody's announcement, it was perfectly clear that it was legal. I don't remember ever seeing any discussion previously that even hinted that male Templars of the Fire Dragon could not take DSC. Everything previously (for Ss'ressen) was around Jeggal Sag (where it was stated that Jeggal Sag does not grant spells and does not have any temples or Templars).

Why this sudden massive change to the rules (specifically for male Ss'ressen Templars of the Fire Dragon) when there was no confusion? I can understand making this ruling for the other ones where there were significant questions raised but why for male Ss'ressen Templars of the Fire Dragon (where there was none)?

Except there was confusion - it wasn't supposed to be legal. People just didn't discuss it.

It is far more explicitly called out in the 3.5 books. If you look at the class match, the Initiate / Anointed Priest in ARG maps well to either the priest class or cleric. The Templar matches well to Paladin or Cleric - depending on the focus. One of the biggest differences between a Paladin and a Cleric is full spell progression. If you're taking DSC you're getting full spell progression and map to the Cleric spectrum in 3.5. It very explicitly said Male Ss'ressens couldn't be clerics or priests. The concepts were clearly laid out cleanly in the old system. With all of the ways to get full spell casting in the new system, this didn't get mapped correctly.

Paladins in the old system for ss'ressen were all male with standard limited paladin spell casting as it was with the HC order as well.

D&D is heavy magic though with most classes getting at least some limited spell casting. If they needed to scale it back and weren't going to eliminate it entirely, there are limited options - and to be fair, they could have just said "no spell casting for male ss'ressen other than the Shamanic route." The first is the way they chose to do it. Another option would be to not remove the Limited trait unless you gain DSC (or ASC for that matter) through the Archetype. If the goal is alternate paths to the same concept with differences in Foci, that's the easiest way to do it. Moving the Special to the archetype to remove the Limited status would scale back on casters significantly and provide extra incentives to take the respective Archetypes. By and large that would bring a lot more archetypal focus back to the game... and have a TON of people up in arms. For that drastic of a general change, perhaps limit that to a 2nd Edition. It could be an alternative approach that the staff could consider.

I can appreciate how difficult it is when the core concept of your character changes. With my primary I went through something vaguely similar though it was event based and purely voluntary.

With the change impacted characters would get a full rebuild. As I understand the rules, if you have spells within a tradition at a given Tier and are the next Tier up, you can Take Learn Spell to learn one at the next level. So if you've got Tier I Deity spells, you can get Tier II Deity spells once you're Tier II. One question to consider is with a rebuild, could you keep those spells that are most core to your vision of your character or replace some of the capabilities in other ways (Replace Diminish Fatigue with Leadership I as it's a heal)?

Just a thought.

With a sweep of his hat,

Paul

Except that 3.5 was a completely different system. A Templar with DSC is not a Paladin or a Cleric - it is something completely different.

If it wasn't supposed to be legal then it should have been disallowed in the rules or errata'd long ago. Given that ARG is a complete set of rules, the only possible reading is that Ss'ressen Templar + DSC is completely legal. My big issue with this is that it seems WAY too late in the game to make such a substantial errata. I've never played any other game that made such fundamental changes this long after release.

Now that I've cooled down some, I would like to know more about the rationale for this change.

Given:

• male Ss'ressen Templars of the Fire Dragon with DSC have been legal since ARG (and the living campaign) launched
• there has been no confusion or question about it (no hint in the rulebook that it was not legal and no question on the forums)
• the mechanics are clearly not broken (all other Templars (except those affected by the errata) are still able to take DSC)
• many of the deity spells of the Fire Dragon seem more appropriate for a Templar than a Priest (to me anyway)

Why was it felt that it was important enough to make such a drastic change (speaking only about male Ss'ressen Templars of the Fire Dragon) at this very late date?

Will existing characters be grandfathered or will we be forced to rebuild the character?

I would strongly encourage you to re-evaluate this change. I've been playing Ss'kethis for (I think) 4 years with many different GMs and players and there has never been any question on legality. Given the significant time and effort I've put into the character, I will be very unhappy if I am forced to rebuild him with a completely different concept (the concept was always a huge ss'ressen templar with DSC).

And one more much less important question that I'm curious about... Why put so many restrictions on Ss'ressen divine casters? Females can't be Templars and (soon) males (basically) can't be casters at all (except Primal). This seems like it will result in many fewer people playing Ss'ressen "divine" characters (which seems odd given how important the Fire Dragon seems to be to their culture).

I am not responding to the direct rules questions as this goes beyond my perview as well as touches on things I had no power to influence before recent times. However, this ruling (including the restictions on Illiirites and Salwueans) reflect the realities of the world of Arcanis as agreed upon by PCI. These rules from henceforth are considered in force as of the time that the Campaign Guide is released.

To understand this ruling please consider the following:

Only male members of the Brood of Ven val'Sosi may be Psionic because of strange physiological (and possibly metaphysical) restrictions.

No ss'ressen can take the Elder Arcane Source (at this time, that we know of).

Only females may take spells from the Eldritch Source because of biological reasons related to how close the eggs are to the central fire from which they are incubated.

Only females are taught theurgy spells. This is because of a cultural objection to male ss'ressen becoming priests. Male priests are physically capable of learning these (hence allowing Rudimentary Prayers and Learn Spell), but the priesthood cast of females would NOT teach them these spells. This ruling reflects the politics of ss'ressen Egg Clutches, much as the ruling reflects the restrictions on the Male Illiirites and Female Saluweans: These priesthoods refuse to share their secrets with filthy/unworthy/etc people of the opposite sex, and keep the power for themselves. The only reason male ss'ressen may pick up some spells is because of the realities of the universe (sometimes they just have to know to do their job) and the realities of the game (because giving some options is better than no options).

Both males and females may take Primal Casting, but only for Jeggal Sag as their 'patron'. However, due to societal constraints every bit as powerful as those of the Fire Dragon, primarily Male ss'ressen are allowed to become shamans of Jeggal Sag, though some females do hear the call and are accepted.

Simply put, males are NOT the ruling class among the ss'ressen. They are, after a fashion, second class citizens to the ruling class of the female priesthood class. They are the warriors, they are the labourers, and they are the canon fodder. The females are bigger, stronger, and in almost any case take superiority in all things. They are manipulated from literally eggs to take on this roll, and males are intentionally manipulated to be subservient and weaker than the females. Much of this is spelled out on page 37 of the existing Ssethregore document, and will be again when the book is rereleased.