Caveat, be civil, this is not a place to disparage other game systems.

So once upon a time those (wacky, crazy?) guys over at PCI said, Hey 4th ed is coming out and instead of transitioning over to a new system yet again lets create our own system, and Arcanis the RPG was born and man is it different. When that was announced, I said I would play any game that Uncle Henry was writing for, so I braved the waters of a brand new system where everything seemed so different and I like to think I've mastered it (really its the bribes to Pete that keep me afloat on information)

Many people and groups have had issues with the system, I myself just had the hardest time "getting" the clock init system, until someone pointed out to me on how similar 2nd end AD&D system was and then it all clicked for me.

Lately I've been hearing (more) stories about people having trouble adopting the system. So I wanted to ask a question to the folks out there: What problems did you have when learning ARPG, and how did you over come it? or alternatively, What problems are you having right now , and how can we help you?

The biggest problem I have faced with people in Saskatoon getting them involved is simply that it IS a new system. They liked their 3.x systems, and had no real desire to change and learn a new system. I had more than one person who told me that if PCI puts out more 3.5 stuff, they will play it, but have no interest in the new system.

I personally feel that this is a rather poor excuse if you like the universe, but I can understand it. 3.5 allowed you a lot of versitility that the ARPG simply does not have yet due to lack of product support as PCI has been pushing Rotted Capes and Witch Hunter out recently, and because of that a lot of them felt that the system is/was limiting to their 'dreams.' Moreso, however, I feel it is simply a case of people being in a comfortable niche, and simply do not want to leave that comfortable niche.

Cody I've actually had a lot of luck selling people on its similarity to the initiative system in 2nd Ed ( and Hackmaster )

But your right one of the big issues to over come is the popularity of the 3/3.5 system and the mindset of groups that adopt that as the be all end all of gaming systems. so we have to sell people on why ARPG is better than 3.5

-More in depth character creation
-characters are not cookie cutter clone builds
-Healing is less emphasized
-healer/tank/dps party roles, don't really exist
-nationality is important
-Secret Societies! Faction Missions!
-Battle Interactives
-LARP opportunities

-the fact that you really affect the story of the campaign
all of that on top of the best world to interact with makes for a more compelling argument.

Alas, there are a few people who just don't care. Their main complaint is "most of those can be done with 3.5, so why can't we just use that?" Also, they seem to like the cookie-cuter characters because it means they can 'optimize' their characters in a way they can't in ARPG.

As I said, I'm not overly impressed with the arguments, but I personally don't think that any of these people would be wooed either way. That said, I did have a about 8 players of ARPG before I left in S'toon, so there was at least some interest there

For the record:
Interestingly, this is one of the things that *never* gets taken advantage of. In the time that I've been on campaign staff, I know of less than a dozen times that people have actually sent in Critical Event Summaries, or even reported table events by word of mouth. As a result, currently only the conventions I have personally been to and noted the results (like ArcaniCon and U-Con upcoming) have truly had any impact.

So, you *can* affect the story. Right now, very few people actually have. Consequently, every result we get may have a disproportionate effect: 19 out of 20 tables kill the bad guy. 1 out of 20 leaves him alive and even supports his goals. If that 1 table is the only table that reports, guess what? That's what happens and the bad guy isn't dead.

Tony have you thought about making those critical event summaries more accessible? or putting specific time limits on them? or even following up with the people that request the mods that have critical event at the end?

I for example don't do critical event summaries for mods older than one year, the CRUSADE! arc has ended and I cant conceive of that information being useful.

I'm sure lil'max, didn't have a critical event outcome

A few things I've noticed...

Strong Points that people LIKE
1) Fluid Initiative: This makes sense to everyone so far and people like it as it really shows the difference between fast, light weapons and slow, heavy weapons. There are a few issues with it but nothing that can't be worked out. I think someone did a statistical breakdown and (barring weapon tricks) a Speed 4, D6 weapon maxes your DPT overall, so that's a good average.
- Some of the gotcha's people have had trouble with is regarding Push (to remember moving all clock items) and the difference between Recovery (no other Recovery maneuvers during that time) and Strain (you can cast spells but at a health cost).
2) Spell Adaptations: This is a big selling point to a lot of people and after a little while it makes sense. It gives a lot of flexibility in making spellcasters who are different without creating vast lists of different spells. There are some 'common' combinations, but in general people can create some flavorful and functional things here.

I believe for most people the hardest part is really the different combat options. This is true for any game; however, as Arcanis is a new system as well, it just compounds it.

Examples:
Movement: There are a lot of different movements and people forget or don't always get the difference.
Maneuvers: Recovery counting down after the Attack Speed is confusing to some

That's it for now

john

I've really come to like the complexity of character creation in the new system, as it makes for very unique characters. Unfortunately it is that same complexity that makes it difficult to learn. I'm definitely also in the class of players who stuck it out because of a love of the story/world.

I found myself frustrated with some of the small things. For instance, going from 1d20 to 2d10 seemed to me like change for change's sake. I still get frustrated by the tier numbering system. Should be 1.0 to 1.9, not 1.1 to 1.10.

All things being equal, I do like the new system. I'm excited to see how things will be at high level. It is just sad sometimes to consider how much easier it would have been to attract new players if PCI had converted to Pathfinder. Not trying to start a debate on that, I understand their reasons.

Personally, I love the Arcanis character creation system (though I still don't understand why you can buy 2 ranks in a new skill but only 1 rank in a skill you were previously trained in during the skills step - just plain doesn't make sense (if anything, I'd expect the opposite)).

The biggest problem I seem to be running into right now is that it is a new unfamiliar system from a small company. So far, I've only had 4 people express interest (and 2 of those can't do it for scheduling reasons). I was surprised since I posted announcements on a local mailing list, local RPG meetup, RPG.net, EN World, and RPG Geeks (plus a couple emails to friends directly). Part of the issue may be the night (my schedule is fairly full so I specified Friday night) and part of the issue may be that there are 2 other Arcanis groups around (one has played everything and one is full). On the other hand, I could easily fill a game locally if it was Pathfinder or 4e (or probably 3.5) and there are tons of existing groups for those...

Maybe I'm just weird - I love trying out new systems that seem like they might be interesting (I've got 2 bookshelves full of RPGs).

I agree with acurrier on the tier numbering (1.0-1.9 would have made a lot more sense than 1.1-1.10).

I have to confess I wasn't sure how I would like the new system so despite a heavy investment in the old campaign I was ready to lurk and wait to see if I liked the new rules and story. If I hadn't liked the new rules I would have moved on. The Masque of the Red Death/Living Death was totally amazing too, but as epic their story was it has been told and its now done.

Obviously I like the new system. Alot. I do have 2 notes.

One thing I note is that there is no resource management in this game. Hit points/Stamina usually refresh between fights effortlessly and spells are infinitely renewable. I am in a minority, (probably a small one at that) but I prefer finite resources and the strategic thinking involved in their management. As a sometime module writer I worry about building engaging and challenging encounters in this system. Encounters are now essentially binary. You win and refresh or you are defeated. There are no more costly wins unless someone takes a wound. The idea of a costly win is something I think authors should be looking for ways to bring that back. I'm not really sure how to go about it.

One other thing I note that is different is that the Arcanis System is a focus on what I call "the middle game" of what would have been the D&D player power progression. It is my opinion and experience that in D&D you have very low "Scoobie Doo" levels where everything is potentially scary and sometimes you have to run away. Your SCoobie Doo victories are important to the local people you help, but are hardly the kind of stuff that shakes Cities and Kingdoms. Then things change a little and you enter a middle game with what I think of as the "James Bond" levels. At this point your character is a player on the world stage and influences important events ... but can be eliminated by making bad choices or antagonizing the wrong power blocks. Most people, but not all, think of this as D&Ds sweet spot. Finally at very high levels PCs enter what I call the "Justice League" phase of the game where the heroes are so powerful as to be essentially beyond the reach of civic authorities and even a large powerful nation may be hard pressed to thwart the will of the players. The PCs taken on legendary or immortal figures for global stakes. Arcanis heroes are more powerful than D&D heroes low levels and less powerful at high levels (largely by eliminating spells that grant powerful divinations, resurrections and mass mobility). I wonder and worry a little if the game may turn off people who enjoyed those modes of play.