Hi all

Driving in the car with a fellow player on the weekend (John Deague), once we finished complaining about Australian Politics, we turned the conversation to Arcanis. During the conversation a couple of thoughts arose regarding Anshar as well as a couple of questions. Considering that it seems that it may be good timing with happenings at Gen Con (if Eric's post on Anshar menace is to be believed ), there are the questions that cam to our minds for peoples thoughts.

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*** Spoiler space in case people don't know about who Anshar is really ****
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First of all we suddenly thought that since Anshar is really Yig, what is happening to all the human (and val) worshiper's souls when they die. Do they go to the Cauldron because they are human or because they are worshiping the Ssethric deities (ie Yig) do they go to be eaten by Kassigore and recycled into new souls? This may be a way of Kassigore to replace those souls lost to the Varn.

Second question we had is if the val'Inares were created by Yig and not a Valinor like the other Vals, why can the Val'Holyren mimic their powers? You would think they would be limited to the "Human" vals

Please note: whatever her origins, so far it seems that Ansgar is toeing Illiir's line. Because of this, I would bet that the human-kin and Dwarf followers of hers would go to the Cauldron and not through Kassegore's digestive tract because Illiir would command it so and Beltine would enforce it since Anshar/Yig has no domain over the soul.

As for the val'Holryn there are many reasons why they could mimic their powers, not the least of which is that there is references to the Inares in the First Imperium, but the first reference to the Holryn family is during the Theocracy of the Cleansing Flame. They may just be able to mimic all that came before them.

Those are great questions! And the most honest answer is: we don't know yet. But what follows is my speculation.

(1) Where do the souls of the Ansharan faithful go? A "human" soul generally has three options. One, if it did really well in life it goes to the appropriate Paradise of the Gods. Two, it goes to the Cauldron. Three, if it really screwed up in life it goes to the Torments of Neroth. I agree with Cody that Anshar/Yig probably doesn't/can't mess with those souls that are destined to the Cauldron or the Torments. But some particularly devout Ansharans presumably go to her celestial coils. What does she do with them? Nurture them and reincarnate them (what a PoM Deity should do)? Kick them over to Kasegore? Stuff them in a piggy bank for a rainy day when she needs soul power? Trade them on a cosmic black market? ...I don't think we have enough data to usefully speculate. Though interestingly Henry suggested to me almost as an aside one time during some conversation that Anshar/Yig might not be nearly as interested in human follows as much as her Ssethric children. That kinda suggests option #1 might not be the most likely outcome.

We also know Khitan rejects Anshar as a member of the Pantheon of Man and the Sleeping Emperor is personally for giving Anshar the thumbs down. Personal grievance? Perhaps, but this suggests to me that Anshar might no longer be in the good graces of the Gods of Man. ...things that make you go hmmmm.

(2) Why can the val'Holryn use val'Inares powers? My best guess is that the val Holryn were created as an artificial val line during the Blood War (hence the Bastard Children of the Gods) as part of an attempt to combine or consolidate all the bloodline abilities...possibly due to experimentation by the val'Mehan who wanted "it all" for themselves. If this wild guess turns out to be right then the reason why the val Holryn can use Inares powers is because the Inares bloodline was part of the experiments that produced the val'Holryn. But i want to stress this is just a pet theory of mine.

NEVER trust an IC post by one of Eric (Hughes) PC's. Illiir knows I don't. Better yet, don't trust his opinions on Arcanis Cosmology either. He's been known to jump in the deep end of the Gulf of Yarris for fun. That and he has been proudly proclaiming support for the silence on this side of the pacific.

moving right along.....

I agree that you've brought up some great questions that I should be added to the incredibly long list of unanswered mysteries of Arcanis. As fuel for thought, I wonder if the answer about souls might be different for val'Inareses (birthed by Anshar) vs. other worshipers (of other soul-origins).

The fact that the world of Arcanis leaves these questions open rather than explaining everything in the sourcebooks is one of the world's many appeals to me.

While this may be completely wrong, if the Ansharans/val'Inares souls went somewhere 'else', you'd think think that over the past 5,000 years or so that the Beltinians would have made note of it. That said, I also think that there should be more in-character notices that the val'Inares 'disappear' around Middle Age and more commentaries on that too. . .

I think the PoM did eventually notice ... not sure if word ever filtered down to normal people. Again something happened that caused Anshar to be dropped from the Khitani faith. That's huge. And we don't why other than that the Sleeping Emperor says so. Why does he say so? I assume because Yig finally gets found out somewhere around the end of the Imperium.

Personal view: if Anshar was "outed" just before the Khitani split, I would expect that the Khitani would be more willing to call her Yig. My read is that they were told by Sleepy that Anshar and Ansharans are not to be trusted and she became taboo. This could be why ul'Shi Dao references her association with serpents as more of a superstition than a direct link.

Could be true.

But if you've gone a thousand years saying, "Hey. I'm Illiir and I represent perfection. This is my sister Anshar." Maybe there's a spiritual\political cost to saying "Whoops! Got that one wrong!" Especially when it might cause further questioning from the flock "Are you really really sure Yarris is on the up and up??? I know you said so, but remember Anshar. Why haven,'t we seen this guys Valinor?" My best guess is that Sleepy's position isn't something he cooked up on his own.

First of all, I put a little more faith in Illiir. The, "Hey I'm your long lost sister," idea is a great story for the masses, but considering that the PoM may be a construct of various gods who decided to unite (and thus not really a family at all) or some other organization, I don't think Illiir was duped by any such claim. Especially since, even if they were all a family, I suspect he would know if he had a sister. So I suspect Illiir made a political call - Yig was more valuable/useful inside the pantheon than outside. Let's face it, from what we can tell, she departed with them to go fight Oblivion, and an extra goddess in that fight is nothing to sneeze at.

I also find it interesting to look at not just what god's have done, but what they haven't done that effect the order of the world. The main one is the brief departure of Yig and Kassegore, just in time for the Ssethrics to lose (again) to the Elorii, and the Varn to gain power among the Ssethrics. If they had stayed, as Kassegore had originally desired, they would have possibly won, and been in power when the PoM appeared. This would potentially put them directly in Umor's path, or the PoM's. Instead, by departing when they did, they left Umor to meet the Elorii, and in turn be destroyed by the PoM. The Ssethric gods and PoM have never been in conflict - making us natural allies! Something made easier by Yig being part of the PoM. And who knows what went before. For all we know Kassegore infiltrated the PoM many years earlier, as Nier already (before the Valinor were handed out/created, so he has them).

There are other interesting things they haven't done - like not killing the lead god of the race they wiped out earlier in time. Instead just tying him to a rock. That just seems like all kinds of stupid - unless he still has a part to play.... (But that has nothing to do with Anshar)