So there used to be celestials, infernals, and slaad, etc, in the 3.5 days, as well as a host of other "outsiders" that could be summoned. We still have infernals, and some can summon them, and see their offspring and effect on the world. We still have Valinor, which we assume can fill at least some of the "celestial" role of things in the universe, but seem too big to fill a summonable position. The only non-fiendish thing summonable is a "celestial shield maiden" summonable by the tier III deity spell "Blessed Protector." And nowhere is it addressed what the cosmology of it is.

Cosmologically, I believe, it is believed Arcanis is one sphere floating in space, correct? With space being "layered like an onion" with the fiery furnace of chaotic elemental creation in the center, and the cold emptiness of entropic desolation on the outside. Other spheres float within space, being essentially elemental planes if they are closer to the center, other planes like arcanis if they are in the "same layer" as arcanis, and heaven/hell like planes if they are further out approaching entropy. It's from some of these outer planes that infernals are purportedly summoned, and inner ones from which elementals are theoretically summoned, and some Elorii have visited.

It is also surmised that there is the land of the dead, the cauldron, and Neroth's realm as one plane out there, and another that is mankind's promised paradise if they pass the Judgment of Nier's judgment. Though to me these seems awfully linked to arcanis to be entirely separate realms.

We also believe that the Varn are out there, in one of these realms, trying to develop a bridge to reach our world. Though why they can't just come here via summoning or whatever seems unclear.

Finally, we know that there have been Myrantian plane-hopping citadels that visited other planes within our layer of the onion, as did some people from the first empire. We believe that celestial giants used to plane hop regularly to stay ahead of something terrible, until they ran into a snag on Arcanis.

So are there benign and indifferent "outsiders" out there that aren't "religiously" related (i.e. servants of the pantheon like shield maidens) like there are actively hostile infernals? It seems like there should be, but there is nothing indicating it. It seems natural for people to look for things they can summon that don’t want to inherently rip them apart and eat them, like infernals do, but it seems our (human) summoning seems entirely directed toward infernals. I know Sarish is the binder, seeking to bind outsiders to fight in the eternal war, but it doesn’t seem like all of those outsiders bound would have to be infernals. Additionally, it seems like Sarish should be just as happy to have bound elementals as well as infernals, but we don’t see humans binding elementals at all. Why is that? Are there good “outsiders” in the arcanis universe aside from those that serve the pantheon? And if there aren’t why aren’t there more levels of servitors for the pantheon than just Valinor (and apparently shield maidens)? How active are they (if they exist), and how do they interact with humans?

I am not as well versed in the theories of the Arcanis universe presented in the old 3.5 "Magic of Arcanis" book, but. . .

The multiverse where Arcanis is located within seems to contain both multiple planets, as well as alternate dimensions and planes. These seem to be somewhat difficult to penetrate within the (present) world of Arcanis for whatever reason, as is evidenced by how awesomely powerful the Celestial Giant World Gate is, how much difficulty the Elorii from "Sorcerous Pacts" had travelling to even the nearest of the Elemental Planes, and how rare interplanar travel is in the current rules set. The only 'standard' movement between planes of existence is summoning infernals.

From what I can make out, these are the planes we know of (off the top of my head):

1) The Infernal Plane - This plane seems to be the domain of Sarish, though the Infernals themselves have a UN-style government called the Council of Ash. This plane may be more accessable due to the machinations of Sarish.

2) The Shadow Plane - Cadic killed the King of Shadow and gained (grudging) dominion over this plane. There have been cases of Shadow Creatures being summoned to Arcanis.

3) Elemental Planes - There are at least 4 of these planes detailed in Sorcerous Pacts, as well as information detailing that there are yet deeper Elemental planes from which it is believed the Elemental Lords are from (the denizens of these Elemental Planes hadn't heard of the Elorii Elemental Lords).

4) World of the Legions of Mnai - This may be another world in the "Infernal Plane", but this world does not seem to be under the domain of Illiir (and therefore, Sarish), implying it may be a completely separate location metaphysically.

5) The "Pocket Plane" of Neroth - In this plane Neroth had trapped the King of a fallen pantheon of gods (name escapes me at present).

There may be more, but those are the only distinct "planes" that I could think of. All other locations may be different planets within the same 'plane'. At present, we only know of 2 types of Celestial Creatures (the Shield Maiden and the Death Angels from the last BI), though it is fair to say that the Valinor are also Celestial. There is no mention that I've come across that they are equivalent to the Infernals, however, and may be little more than extensions of their patron God's divine will or effective constructs (for example, the Valinor may have been 'built' by the Gods as there tools rather than being a race originally which they have dominion over).

Cody,

Wow, for not being well versed this had a lot of new information for me! I know that actual travel is difficult between worlds, but half that battle seems to be making sure you know where you are going. Summoning seems to be pretty easy, relatively speaking. I’m not sure how important the cosmology is to the actual discussion. The main idea is, why is most everything people summon evil?

I’ve never heard of the council of Ash. It makes sense that Sarish might have dominion on an infernal plane, and that he might do something to make contact with it easier. But I always thought the infernals came from a multitude of planes, thus there being an essentially infinite amount of them to use in the war, whereas one might think that one other plane might be depopulated by the demands of the war, and yet there does not appear to be any dearth in infernals. I haven’t heard of the world of the legions of mnai either. Does knowledge of these locations come from a current campaign module, I assume?

Shadow Plane and Ethereal Plane are explained in the previous cosmology, and are not actually entirely separate planes – they are mirrors or shadows of our own, essentially. I don’t know if we’ve seen the ethereal in the new campaign. I know that Cadic is reported to have killed the King of Shadow – possibly one of the deities from the pantheon that the PoM wiped out by time travel. Though I’ve always wondered if he could be that deity as well…

I don’t believe the plane of Neroth that was visited in the last campaign where the fallen god was found was a pocket dimension. I believe it was just access to a specific location in the same plane of death where the Judgement of Nier sits and other modules took the PCs. I’ve always thought it interesting that the PoM spared and imprisoned the head deity of an opposing pantheon. I seriously doubt they did that just so he could challenge some silly adventurers a millennia or so later. I think it would be interesting to see him again…

I don’t think the “Death Angels” were necessarily celestials. It was my understanding that they were some form of undead. Classification of new stuff seen at BIs is always so questionable. Even if they are celestial, they are from a very different realm than we know anything about!

You may want to look at the mods from Arc 1: Crusade! "Born of the Fires of Hell" and "Condemnation" for some of the info presented above.

The average person knows very little of the planes beyond the world of arcanis except perhaps that they're "full of monsters." Scholars who have read the works of the sage Nerius the Elder know the universe consists of "layers" like an onion (or in the real world, those of us who have read the 3.5 Magic of Arcanis book...). But its not like a lot of people are out there testing what Nerius postulated. IC and OOC the "other worlds" remain obscure.

In theory at the very center of the universe is a molten layer of "chaos" that was tapped by "the Creator" (possibly Kassegore) to make the rest of the universe. Its surrounded by a second layer of almost pure (essentially uninhabitable) elemental planes. A third layer is described as elementally infused realms. Its possible the Kio migrated to Arcanis from one of these worlds. The Fourth layer is a mortal plane (ie. the place where Arcanis floats). The Fifth layer is full of celestial/infernal worlds. Each individual world on this plane seems to have a fixed moral outlook (either celestial or infernal). The "Paradise of the Gods" is probably on this layer. The Celestial Giants may originate from this layer. A sixth layer is a tattered place with a scattering of worlds and ancient godlike horrors. Tzihet and company probably call this layer home. Finally a 7th "non-layer exists that is home to "Oblivion" or "Entropy."

Each layers has more (or less) "bubbles" embedded in the layers. These are individual worlds.

It should be said that while the Nerius model seems to be broadly in agreement with what we saw in the Sorcerous Pacts PDF. But it is not necessarily on all fours with the Ehtzara's secret history from Children of the Lesser Gods PDF.

Layers like the ethereal and the plane of shadow that were part of the D&D superstructure may no longer exists...or have been shifted to reflect the Arcanis Cosmology. For example the Plane of Shadow could conceivably be either another world of the Mortal Plane or perhaps on the 5th layer...or something unique and different.

Its worth cycling back a moment to the Paradise of the Gods. Generally each god maintains their own Paradise (ie world...again probably on the 5th layer of the Onion). Beltine and Neroth are an exception and jointly maintain their realm which is collectively known as the Underworld with prominent features like ... the Cauldron.

Its also worth circling back to Sarish. Sarish does not directly rule over the myriad infernal worlds, though he does have a titanic collection of infernal servants. Sarish is more like a fisherman (or industrial scale kidnapper) who treats the infernal realms as a "labor pool" of future slaves. Go in with a big net. Scoop up the next cohort. Bind them. Send them to the front lines.

Thanks Eric, for the improved cosmology explanation. Though I do feel the need to mention that is a theory presented in the book as presented by Nerius. So for all we know, Nerius could be totally wrong. Though the recent sorcerous pacts seems to support it pretty well.

I didn't realize that each god has their own Paradise. Is that stated somewhere? I've often wondered about the entire idea of a paradise and judgement of Gods that have no alignment. What do they reward? they don't care if you've been bad or good, so what do they judge against? And what would the paradise of Beltine's look like that could be paradise for both a loyal priest of the church and a Grey Crone (Since the underworld seems more like their plane of work, not their paradise plane)? I was actually at the point of thinking that paradise was a ruse - that what the gods rewarded was usefulness, and the reward was getting to be useful in the war. So most adventurer's that reached any real level would probably gain "paradise" whereas no matter how "good" a cobbler you might be, you're screwed, since that probably isn't very useful in the war for existence. Than I read "The Storm" and "The Aftermath" where we saw two souls actually go to paradise - and they wouldn't have gotten there without intervention. These were doughty and loyal souls, so they certainly counted as useful. So if that was the only criteria than they wouldn't have needed intervention. And we saw that there was indeed a paradise. It threw my theory in the toilet.

So is there one paradise, or multiple? We've seen living people go to the underworld plane. Theoretically it should be possible to plane travel to paradise as well, right? If it is just another plane?

As for Sarish, that seems right to me - his only establishment in the hell's are the processing centers helping him recruit and processing them for deployment. But does he only bind infernals? Why not celestials and other beings from the 5th sphere? Shouldn't he be an equal opportunity kidnapper, er, I mean recruiter? Shouldn't there be good (or at least indifferent) planes in the 5th sphere unrelated to the PoM that people could summon? Things not so likely to eat the summoner?

Sooo much to unpack and guess at ...



Yes. Take all that with a grain of salt.



It is not specifically stated that each God has their own world except that the Underworld is controlled jointly by Beltine & Neroth which is pretty clearly separate. The Underworld consists of the Torments of Neroth (think of Greek Tartorus) for the souls that *really* screw up, the Cauldron...and other areas we don't know as well. BUT it is stated that each of the Gods have their own idea of what Paradise is and that they are different from each other. Its mentioned that Altheres has his Great Library (probably among other locations) while Nier's paradise is currently undefined, but in mind is a lot like Valhalla but with more fire. It is my assumption (possibly wrong) that they exists as different but linked worlds (perhaps with a "central" Empyrean Court).

As for what "They" reward...this is something I've wrestled with for the better part of a decade. As players and characters we don't know. I think different authors have put somewhat different spins on this. I'm not sure even Henry has it 100% worked out...and if he has, he hasn't shared. I *GUESS* that the gods have "A PLAN" and that the plan is essentially the craziest Rube Goldberg machine you've ever imagined to either (a) ensure the conditions exist in the future where they are born/created (so they can travel back in time and kick everything off) AND/OR (b) generate conditions that allow survival against the Silence. ... If so then I believe people get judged over how their lives impact the "Plan." But our glimpse of the Torments of Neroth suggest that cowardice is heavily punished which may imply some wider system of judgement on "Virtues." Of course the Gods do not appear to agree on what qualifies as an important virtue...

I would also note that its perfectly opaque to me on the issue of how many souls get to paradise vs how many go to the Cauldron. It seems like most souls should be recycled in the Cauldron ... but there have been interactions with some NPCs that suggest most people who live decent lives go to the Paradise of the Gods. How this works isn't clear to me. Nor is it clear how most people, who don't have a particular patron God, would know where to end up if they did get to a Paradise. For example: If I live a good life and I pray to Yaris for safe sea travel and Saluwe for Bounty and Hurrian for Protection ... which of their Paradises do I end up in?



No, I really doubt this. The plan is something that runs through Centuries and Aeons and is not something simple enough to hold in a mortal mind. Was the primary purpose of your life to help inspire the guy (or gal) who would have a nagging question that you raised...that would in turn inspire a future philosopher? Maybe you go to Paradise even if you kill three neighbors with an axe. "Waste" your life defending your village from evil things (in the short term) but miss the significant other you were supposed to sire a future hero with? Maybe go to the Cauldron as a failure.



I *believe* Sarish doesn't grab celestials because there are enough infernals and enslaving them is less ethically troubling. Angels in chains? Sad face. Infernals in chains? No tears shed. There is a (heretical) theory floating around that each Mortal world eventually ends up a celestial or infernal world as one philosophy (good or evil) triumphs. So maybe yes...there should be unaffiliated celestial worlds to tap...though its not clear that the PoM approves of mortals making contact with said worlds. And if the Celestial Giants come from the 5th shell ... well they won't eat you but good luck getting them to do anything "really cool" once they get here.

The problem with it being incomprehensible to mortals, or that it need ensure an unknown condition in the future, is that it means there is no guidance at all. One could sit on their ass forever and go to heaven because, "that was the plan." Or one could defeat one of the twelve great dragons in one-on-one combat, but since that dragon was the one that was supposed to help lead to the creation of the gods... you go to punishment forever. It's impossible to tell. Yet we know there is one sure way into paradise - to get a sucker to promise to serve Sarish in the afterlife in return. Apparently that is a valuable enough trade that it works. That's sort of why I thought usefulness was the rubric, and the reward would be going off to serve. But apparently that isn't the case either.

Good to know that cowardice is a pretty universal route to damnation, but then again, different gods might have a different opinion on what is cowardice. Is making a deal with a horrible enemy so you can live to fight him later cowardice, or brave pragmatism? I know of at least one character that really, really wants to know.



Ya, how much of that interaction is with people who would actually know though? I mean, would the high priest of the church actually know? I know this is what the church teaches, but is it true?



And of course, the idea of a pantheonistic church would argue for 1 paradise wouldn't it? I mean, if there was ever an actual time when everyone worshipped all the gods, then wouldn't there need to be a pantheonistic paradise too?



But does Sarish care? Why would Sarish have a sad face over angels in chains? He is neither good nor evil. If he could acquire a bound angel warrior for an iota less of power than an equally powerful bound infernal warrior, wouldn't he do it?

I suppose that one could argue that any "good" and intelligent realm could be convinced of the value of the cause already, and thus be willingly cooperating with the gods already - thus essentially drawing them into the PoM cosmology. Unless they have some equally pressing issues to keep them out of the fight.



Didn't realize that was heretical.





I always assumed they were 4th shell hoppers. Didn't realize they may have hopped here from the 5th shell. Makes sense though since they are "celestial." Interesting that they were "celestial" but didn't appear good at all.

I should have said maybe heretical. It's speculation. Not sure what the Mother Church really thinks of that.

No kidding. I am still looking for a better road map. Please let me know if you find or theorize one.



That's a great question. Its an acknowledged but unspoken truth that NONE of the modern religions centered on the Pantheon of Man (Khitani, Mother Church, DT, MOC...) is all that close to what the Church of the First Imperium actually looked like. So maybe there is a Paradise built on the 1st Imp model. On the other hand we know the Gods once warred on each other too. Even if the mortal worship was consolidated in the face of the Other its not clear to me if the Celestial real estate ever was.

OTOH its possible that there is at least a centralized "shared space/world." Its deep OOC knowledge but there is an artifact called the Oculus that, in powerful enough hands (ie beyond Tier 5 creatures), grants access to some place known as the Empyrean Court. Best guess (again deeply OOC knowledge) is that Loshnek currently has possession of it.