well like many things, people dont understand that they are doing something distasteful to other characters, and will continue to do so until someone takes them aside and explains why its distasteful and / or unfeasible to do so.

Sometimes this will take multiple people and/or repeated explanations on why this is a distasteful action. perhaps even relying on an authority figure to speak up and say something along those lines also.

So be the person that speaks up directly?


(that last line is not directed at anyone in particular but a general appeal for people to be the person that steps up and says "That's not cool")

To be fair the val'Mehan in question was asking for blood so he could track us in case we got kidnapped by the bad guys. Out of character I don't think he has any ulterior motives. In character, well... Since the val'Mehan character doesn't push the idea on us we are generally cool with that player. While my Beltininan find his pair of Infernal "bodyguards" to be off-putting there is no denying they are helpful in combat.

Guess my issue with this dates back to my time as a Shadowrun player, where you NEVER EVER leave DNA evidence behind...

If it is voluntary, that is one thing. But, if a PC is scavenging the battlefield for blood droplets of other Heroes who took stamina damage. Like Josh said...not cool. On the other hand, that has given me an idea of what might happen if a Val'Mehan with a blood collection just happens to be in Dhakivar.

Dear ValMehan Hero,
THanks for bringing us all that juicy information.
Love,
The Val'Baucisz

I think Cody has a point in his original post. One can argue about the fine points (e.g., solid vs liquid blood, catching diseases, whether the PC carries the blood on his person or on a mount or cart, etc.), but the primary point stands that the val'Mehan blood-tracing abilities lead to impractical results. That we players have found this problem shows that the Arcanis stories and adventures have taught us players to think creatively as well as intelligently.

I say this as one of those val'Mehans who collects blood (but I'm wearing my GM hat to think this through now). I had the idea on my own to preemptively collect blood (both from friends in case they ever are lost or captured and from enemies in case I want to find my enemies) even before I gain the Blood Calls to Blood Talent since I knew I'd get it one day. If I thought of it on my own, other players must have done the same, and that means many val'Mehans (as individuals and as a family) would have thought of it. (BTW, I don't know whether anyone collected blood in the Living Arcanis campaign.) If we extrapolate logically, some odd societal results will occur. Even though vals are not as common in the general populace as they are amongst Hero PCs, there are enough val'Mehans that their abilities probably would impact society and their family. The two key abilities here are the Bloodline Talent Blood Calls to Blood (ARPG, p.223) and Sense Blood cast as a Heritage Spell (CoH, p.158), neither of which has any limits as to how long ago the blood was collected or tasted. Taken alone, they are neat flavor and nice abilities, but taken to extreme by the val'Mehan family, the results are bigger and scarier. If there were only a few hundred val'Mehans in the world, there would not be these results--but I presume there are many thousands and thousands of val'Mehans.

Imagine a large, powerful val family that has these abilities and what they could do.

• They might offer expert bounty-hunter services to find anyone desired for a fee and a drop of blood.
• They might collect samples of blood from their political (and business) rivals just so they can get a sense as to whether they are anywhere nearby.
• They might go to every baby born and offer to collect some of its blood just in case the Harvesters come for the babe so that they can recover the child. They might offer such a service for a fee. They might do it for free just so they have a sample of everyone's blood to be able to find them any time they want.
• They might offer a general rescue service for people who might want to be found if kidnapped--with an extra fee collected later for anyone who wants to run away and be lost.
• They might offer a service to determine from a drop of blood whether the target was alive or dead. This could be useful not only on determining whether a missing loved one was alive or dead but also for discerning the status of a missing nobleman, a missing heir, a missing warrior (whether legionnaire, knight, scout, or hero), an absent rival, or an assassination target.
• They might offer to cast healing spells (e.g., Diminish Fatigue and Cleanse the Blood) for free while surreptitiously collecting blood to have it just in case it's ever useful.
• They might offer small rewards for any blood they don't already have a sample of. This might be overt or secretive, and it could be larger rewards for secret samples of noble blood or their enemies.
• In Nishanpur, the Sarishans at the city gates collect blood as part of the payment for the Mark of Sarish, and thus they get some of many people's blood.

Since people would eventually realize the downside of letting val'Mehans have a sample of everyone's blood, the family might offer to swear Sarishan Oaths that they will not do anything with the blood other than what is stated up front, perhaps for a small extra fee or as a free oath as a gesture of good will (which would eventually be needed or no one would trust them). But then people would realize that if you can't trust the val'Mehans with your blood then how can you trust whether they really are casting that Sarishan Oath spell or not. Thus, eventually no one trusts the val'Mehans at all. This line of reasoning (either from bad experiences or just reasoning it out in advance like this) might lead the val'Mehan family to police itself actively and avoid these problems, but there would be bad apples here and there, and the family might still secretly collect some blood from special people and get in trouble if/when caught. Moreover, everyone would learn to be cautious when someone in Sarishan robes tries to help them recover from bleeding, and healing might sometimes be refused from someone who might be a val'Mehan. Bloody bandages might wind up being burnt at times (at least by those who are powerful and/or paranoid) to prevent val'Mehans from getting their hands on it. Stories might spread (true or not) that val'Mehans bred special Infernal mosquitoes or striges to steal blood from innocent people.

The suggestions previously posted for limiting blood collection by PCs do not address the above societal-level issues. If the talent and spell are played as listed in the books, mannish society probably would have dealt with these repercussions long ago. (And maybe Henry can tell us a story about that and how it was all resolved.)

Thus, I propose that some form of limitation be placed on both the Talent and the Spell. One simple and perhaps effective measure would be to limit them to work only on relatively recent blood. Perhaps it needs to be less than a week or so old. Too long an expiration limit would not relieve the problems, while too brief an expiration limit would make the abilities mostly useless. A week feels like a nice period where it's still useful yet discourages hoarding blood "just in case." This sort of limitation should be a rules change and not just a campaign change since it would affect the world regardless of the shared campaign. For practicality, though, the Legends of Arcanis campaign might rule that blood "expires" between modules (with possible exceptions for two-part stories that occur in less than a week of game time).

What do others of you think about all these points on likely societal consequences of the existence of the blood-tracing abilities and the potential solution I've proposed?

Wow, all these suggestions for giving blood to the Val'Mehans and how they can make use of it, just from the two powers in the players guide. These are the people who bound a third of the Valinor to a not-nice place. They worship a blood god of magic, and are descended from one of his servants. I would eat everything I own if I were to find out these two powers were the limit of what they can do with your blood. Want a vote to go their way, well they have a drop of your blood, vote their way or fall over dead.

I might give a comrade Val'Mehan a taste of my blood because he's earned my trust. But a drop to store that could then go to who-knows-where? Might as well slit my own throat now.

What's this "eventually" thing you're mentioning kemosabee?

I mean no disrespect to the many val'Mehan PCs. Almost all of whom are heroic and often vastly entertaining, and who are run by players I would gladly sit down at a table with. But ... uh ... val Mehan family... yeah...Is there someone out there that does trust them? Anyone?!?

I have no objection to a week or a month limit on "blood collection." But I still don't see this as much as an issue. Any rival (N)PC with a lick of sense doesn't let the val'Mehan touch his or her blood. I would also add that while many PCs embrace heroic attitudes the stereotype of the val'Mehan is of a schemer who doesn't like to get his or her hands dirty. Taking the effort to run a personal warehouse of blood samples sounds like a logistical nightmare.

And if the Canceri branch is any example at all, then the val'Mehan spend more time scheming against each other to rise in family then they do scheming to rise over other families. I don't think the val'Mehans present a united front to the world.

This is pretty rediculous when you start actually examining the rules:



so throwing out numbers lets say that you have a t5 blood rank 10 val mehan, GRATS you now have a tracking of 50.

#1 there are no listings of tracking that use resolve as a skill, All listed uses of tracking use insight or logic, So for arguments sake I'm going to asssume the intention was to allow the use of resolve in place of insight (but not logic), that would allow for Track and read tracks.

#2 these rules are faily straightforward for "read tracks" there is a chart and everything, and you know what in context this makes sense

#3


well table 2-19 probably means 2-20, and that sets a base survival TN from 15-35, sure makes sense, depending on my mood and rediculous ness of whats going on I'd probably set the Base TN at 25 or 30, 30 being the Base TN for a City

#4


OK I read that as : "You should adjust the TN based on extenuating circumstance" now specifically when using blood calls to blood, I would consider the distance , the age of the blood (in terms of weeks), the conditions the blood was collected in (likehood of contamination)

note blood calls to blood actually ignores the physical circumstances, ARPG 223

#5


Yep I read that as it has to be liquid and not contaminated with other substances

#6
using 4&5 I'd make the skill check in line for the difficulty of what the heroes are actually trying to do, with out overpowering them in difficulty or lowballing them with easy checks. Also You have to recheck each hour (per the tracking rules ARPG 164)

#7
the use of tracking assumes that you are on their trail, if your not on their trail its really up to the Judge to determine what happens

BUT the bottom line really comes down to denying players things that would "break mods", and as a judge all of the things above are tools to do so, along with things that Ive probably missed. But at the same time this is a fantastic tool for the judge to use to get the party back on track or even to get them off track if they are too close to breaking the story.

Matt Flinn's mention of the val'Baucisz got me thinking of a mod idea. Suppose they have a "blood storage facility." (if such a thing is possible in Arcanis). You get sent by a mysterious patron to "liberate" one or more vials from the facility. Could be fun and nasty. I can only imagine the security such a place would have.

Raises questions about the huge blood pool beneath Nishanpur. Can you track anyone who has aver contributed blood to the pool by just tasting the pool?

Considering it's a pool I would think all the "personalities" would be all mixed up. Recalling some adentures set in that area in old campaign I would also say you really don't want to go there. You have been warned....