I agree with most of what both Eric and Henry had to say. I was one of those that wasn't happy last year, but it was only the issue of the change to xp. As far as the BI I had no complaints it was scary fun and Eric Gorman our GM did a good job with our table. While they are exhausting to play and even more so to judge I have found them to be a rewarding experience and one of the things that produces the fondest memories. I still remember the first Battle of Semar and we all know how long ago that was! Brian Schoner was our GM and he too did an excellent job. But given the intense nature of the experience and the emotions it produces, complaints and grumblings are inevitable. I've been in organized play since 2000 and I can't recall a single BI that didn't leave at least some people unhappy. Just the nature of the beast. So I will gird my loins, grab my quarterstaff and hope to Beltine that if I have to go, I go out swinging! See you at Origins.

P.S. One favor to ask of Henry and crew. I'm not as young as I used to be. Could we make these just a bit shorter? I just don't have the stamina I had for these things I had 10+ years ago.
While my character may be in his late 20s poor Mike is pushing 57...gad I can believe I just typed that...

I wish to appologize for any griefing I may have contributed to last year. At times it is easy to forget that the person on the other end of the critizism is a person who is contributing to a hobbie in their spare time.

Hello Eric,

I can't say who the people were as I wasn't there and Eric didn't name names, but it wasn't just one person. All I know is that there were enough for him to not want to "host" the BI again.

I can understand if people are unhappy with an event - as hard as we try we can't please everyone - that they wish to voice their opinion and it is not my intention to stifle said complaints by my post.

Some of my thoughts about BIs...

1) I have written them (or parts of them) for other (previous) campaigns so I understand AND appreciate the work that goes into them. So thanks to everyone that has taken that on and continues to do so.

2) I want to reinforce the notion that it is a complete waste of time to worry about the complaints and gripes of a small number of each group of players. Not that they should be ignored, but far more people are willing to expend great energy to complain than what they will to praise. And in some cases the complainers -should- be ignored, imo.
But I have also learned in my career that (constructive) criticism is a gift. Everyone can learn from it and improve their efforts. I have seen where some people get so close to their writings for a campaign (regular or special events) that they take comments far harder than they should.

3) I want BIs to -matter- in unique and original ways for the ongoing story of the campaign. I want every scene to have an impact on the outcome of the story for the specific BI, which should of course have some world impact. These events affecting the story on a much larger scale is what sets Arcanis apart of other campaigns.
I think for a while they came down to some pretty standard encounters - kill the scouts, capture some supplies, take the pass, hold the line, stop a ritual - until there was a final encounter (or 2) that really determined things.

4) I want them to be deadly. These are events of WAR, and that comes down to individuals and groups risking their hides in the chaos of battle.
These role/roll -playing games are best when there is a balance between the acting and the strategy of the rules. I like the randomness of rolling dice to determine outcomes. I like the effort put into designing a character that is social and combat effective (at some things, at least). I like the tactics one could use on the battle map. I like visuals like cool (accurate) minis and 3d terrain!
I for one loved the Tultipet BI. It had serious risk, there was progress towards pushing into the fortress. There were some good surprises and great combats (Josh tell people about the 4-5(?) time string of Eye For an Eyes we had with the Malfellans! We role-played and roll-played the crap out of that thing!!

5) I am now and have usually been part of a group of players that is familiar with each other (and their PCs). We want to be challenged in story and combat ways. We are efficient and effective in most situations. We are often outcome geared players and characters, we want to be on the edge of risk and reward. We want to feel that risk factor, its what heightens the enjoyment when the group succeeds.

I have more, but this is enough for now I 'spose!

[quote="frzntundra4"]Some of my thoughts about BIs...

5) I am now and have usually been part of a group of players that is familiar with each other (and their PCs). We want to be challenged in story and combat ways. We are efficient and effective in most situations. We are often outcome geared players and characters, we want to be on the edge of risk and reward. We want to feel that risk factor, its what heightens the enjoyment when the group succeeds.


My experience at BIs is the exact opposite. There are only enough of us who play locally that also go to cons to make at best two to three members of a table. So we are usually thrown together just before the BI and have no idea as to capabilities or tactics. That said things usually work out as we try to discuss things beforehand. But I doubt we are as effective as tables who have played together with the same characters for years. But I imagine GMs can take that into account as my experience in the last two BIs was positive. Oh there were some frustrating moments but that's the nature of things. "Do you have Athletics as a trained skill...hmm a priest not a fighter...nope...sucks to be me... Somebody lower me a rope please...

In past years (but not last year) I have organized a BI group in advance, and we have actually worked out tactics in advance of the BI, discussed what spells everyone has, planned for different contingencies. Some of my favourite RPG memories are at battle interactives. It is incredibly nerdy to say so, but there is a definite adrenaline rush knowing that you have a certain amount of time to reach your objective, and that you will be captured/killed if you fail.

There are ways to get around not having enough local players, if you reach out and plan in advance.

When I ran a table at Origins'05, the table were known to each other.

They didn't have a lot of pre-planning done, but it was also only an APL5 table and they knew each other's abilities (light on combat ability as well). Not having to think too hard about their actions kept the pace up and they usually finished well before time.

Having that 'I can rely on you to do this...' frees each character up for their specialty without having to divert resources to plug the gaps.

At our most recent homeplay-BI (Battle of Jappa), even though our table are regulars, some of the players take a few encounters to 'warm up' as we rotate a couple of different game systems. Even then, due to past experiences, not everyone plays the role they were built for. This does make it harder to compensate until they drop back into what they are good at.

The timed encounter is the most stressful part, as we loose a lot of time at the start sorting the die pools out. Worked in our favour for the 'survival' objectives; by accident as we were still trying to wipe them out.

@Rick. Do you have any ideas for novel types of BI encounters? Especially that you'd like to see?

I remember being blown away by the first Battle of Semar because it was so well organized compared to any other BI I had ever seen...even the cool ones like Living City's Naval BI. Its hard to imagine now but the LC Navy BI lacked discrete encounters. Things happened sequentially, in one of three locations, but it was fuzzy how PCs could get from one to the other...or how rounds from one area interacted with the others. The loudest players tended to dominate the event.

The encounter structure in Semar was well defined and at the time it was gloriously new. But we're often victims of our own success. Most BIs i see now follow a similar format. What was once revolutionary has now become a norm. Not that LA has rested on its laurels. For example 4 Armies, Enpyben and Solonos Mor were all pretty unique for allowing PCs to fight on different sides. Still I don't know how many BIs this campaign and others have done, but I'm guessing improvements and novelty is a lot harder these days.

Arcaniscon has done an amazing job the two years I have seen, of trying new things within this broad format. IMO the vault of Larissa was the most innovative and enjoyable design I've seen since Semar or Enpyben. Huge kudos there.

Origins being Origins we're pretty much limited to a 8 hour slot (though we all know they often go long). That might limit some of the things that have gotten tried at Arcaniscon. But certainly not all.

So while we're thinking about BIs, if anyone has cool ideas they want to suggest fire away.

I was also blown away by the Battle of Semar. I really liked the way that they worked in missions for PCs of every ATL. Low level tables were manning the walls and putting out fires (from what I heard, didn't play at a low level table), while the high ATL tables were doing reconnaissance missions behind enemy lines. It seemed really well thought out, had an absolute blast.

The last Origins BI, I really liked the fact that there was an encounter in which they made use of some non-combat skills (primarily Athletics, scaling the wall). I would really like to see more of this, as occasionally it can feel like a bit of a waste to put points into anything other than Arcanum/Melee/Mettle/Perception. The more skills such as Athletics/Acrobatics/Battle/Beast Lore/Larceny etc come up both in module and special event, the more useful well-rounded characters become.

I know it is a major pain for PCI, but possibly each BI could have a format similar to this:

Scene 1 - Common scene where all the heroes face the same foe/scenario. For example, "you are all outside the city after learning of an invasion and now have to return with enemies at your heels."


Scene 2 - Variable encounter with three different missions which can be chosen by each table. Allow 5 minutes for players to change tables if they desire. For example, you could have the usual 'hold the gates' (melee-heavy), 'hold the walls' (ranged heavy), or 'special mission' (such as a roleplaying encounter to rally troops and negotiate tactics/command/etc).

Scene 3 - Common scene where all the Heroes from the previous Scene must face some kind of challenge. For example, "enemy troops have managed to find a tunnel into the city, and you have to defend X civilians who are trying to escape." (sucks for 'non-combat' types, but sometimes you have to get your hands dirty I guess )

Scene 4 - Variable encounter with three different missions which can be chosen by each table. Allow 5 minutes for players to change tables if they desire. For example, you could have a 'hold the city' encounter (combat heavy), 'infiltration' (stealth-focused), and a 'special mission' for some plot device allowed by only a single table based on success rate (as reported by GMs)?

MEAL BREAK

Continue this alternating scheme after the break, until we reach the crescendo!

I know a lot of BI's already do this to one extent or another, but I personally always feel rushed whenever I play and this gives people the option of switching tables. Hell, as with the example of 'gate/wall/negotiating' it can add variety for the next scene where you face common enemies based on where they were at the time. For example, anyone defending the gate will be plastered against the wall and have to fight their way out, people on the walls will be able to snipe enemies but otherwise let baddies kill civilians unchecked, and people 'negotiating' will have to defend NPC's while the baddies swarm whatever building they are in (close quarters combat in a small room).

I know we can't do cookie-cutter things, but it is a thought.