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 Post subject: val'Emman versus val'Virdan
PostPosted: Thu Jan 29, 2015 6:47 pm 
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What is the current state of affairs between these two val families? How hostile are they to each other? Do val'Emmans hide their allegiance around val'Virdans to avoid conflicts? Or are things more in the open in the current campaign? I'm curious both as a player and a GM. I look forward to everybody's take on this.

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Michael T. Hebert

Haakon val'Ishi, Beltinian Exorcist 2.7 [Divine]
Ursula val'Holryn, Grand Master of the Tralian Hammer 2.2 [Martial]
Arun of Tultipet, Holy Champion of Neroth 1.10 [Expert]
Rikitsa val'Holryn, Psion 1.9 [Arcane]


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 Post subject: Re: val'Emman versus val'Virdan
PostPosted: Thu Jan 29, 2015 7:46 pm 
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It depends where you are, I guess.

There have only been two adventures that I can recall which touches upon the topic since the 3.5 days, which are my own "The Dark Face of War" and Joe Cirillo's "Edge of the Knife".

In the first adventure, I wrote it under the assumption that the val'Virdan of Erduk still harboured a pathological hatred of the val'Emman in the same way that the modern world does of escaped Nazi's--and for exactly the same reason, in their mind--which is basically the same as the 'traditional' view of Erduk from established stories. However, I did make the character Hasdrubal val'Virdan who had a more. . . progressive view which wasn't shared by his underlings. My view is that in the modern day your average Erdukeen harbours a view that all evil in the world come from the Emman (and, to a lesser extent, the Assante' probably), and all children are indoctrinated to this fact. As people travel and are more worldly, this ingrained hatred can be filed away, but the majority still believes the indoctrination that had been pushed upon them as children, which means the hatred continues.

In "Edge of the Knife," we hear that the val'Emman have claimed Enpebyn as their own personal domain (like the val'Ishi) and have spent the decades harassing or otherwise ridding the city of all the val'Virdan. This shows a level of aggression and hatred (or at least animosity) which matches the val'Virdan descendents and adherant's of the Sword of the Heaven. In fact, the view I see seems almost childlike in its level of vengeance, but such a view is entirely based on OOC views when IC they themselves might have suffered greatly warrenting their hatreds.

The only other two places this animosity would be relevant would be in Canceri and Nova Cormata in Coryan. For these places, we really do not have too much information, but personally I cannot see any evidence to support that there is more hatred between the families than any other Val clan. In Canceri, there is a chance that the val'Emman's would be welcomed by the official government to spite the Swords of Nier who had previously occupied their country. Additionally, many former 'loyal' Nierite val'Virdan's when the Swords came in were persecuted when it was found that they were in fact Emman's, which may have led to a number joining the forces which fought against the Sword's occupation. Even if the val'Virdan 'elite' would oppose these upstarts from gaining power, they could have earned a lot of brownie points with the Mehan and the Mordanes for their opposition.

In Nova Cormata, I can see there being some tension (especially if the Coryani Emmans are actively persecuting the Virdans to the north), but the tension may be between rival houses seeking power among a new province filled with refugees. In this situation, the same may have been the same if the Holryn's or the Sheem were also involved in the establishment with the Nierite families. However, it remains to be seen as new material is released.

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Cody Bergman
Legends of Arcanis Campaign Staff
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Haakon Marcus val'Virdan, Divine Holy Judge of Nier
Ruma val'Vasik, Martial Crusader and Master of the Spear
Jorma Osterman, Arcane Coryani Battlemage


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 Post subject: Re: val'Emman versus val'Virdan
PostPosted: Thu Jan 29, 2015 8:45 pm 
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Location: Southwestern Ohio
Thanks. I have not played those particular mods. Not sure if I see the val'Ishi letting the val'Emman set up shop in "their" city, but maybe there's something in the mod that explains that. To a large extent these questions are driven by a desire to know how to play a val'Emman when he or she meets a val'Virdan. Personally I'm a fan of free will and all that, and let the roleplaying chips fall where they may. But if there's something in the canon out there I missed I'd love to hear it. Having read the history between the two families Henry laid out in the Blessed Lands book I can certainly see where the bad blood comes from. For those who would say time heals all wounds I would simply point to current events, where we have conflicts of all sorts driven by events and hatreds dating back hundreds if not thousands of years. I guess the best way to go is the one that leads to the most fun for all at the table. :)

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Michael T. Hebert

Haakon val'Ishi, Beltinian Exorcist 2.7 [Divine]
Ursula val'Holryn, Grand Master of the Tralian Hammer 2.2 [Martial]
Arun of Tultipet, Holy Champion of Neroth 1.10 [Expert]
Rikitsa val'Holryn, Psion 1.9 [Arcane]


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 Post subject: Re: val'Emman versus val'Virdan
PostPosted: Thu Jan 29, 2015 8:57 pm 
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Cody did a very good job of describing the interactions on a macro level, but for individual characters you are not tied to any specific type of response. I play a val'Emman, but he was born and raised a val'Virdan (character was created prior to the val'Emman bloodline re-emerging, in the last campaign). He knows that val'Virdan are not all evil, as he was raised among them.

That isn't to say he wouldn't kill a val'Virdan who had earned it, but he won't be overtly aggressive towards them for no reason.

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Akira Currier
aka Raseri 'Crash' val'Emman - Master of the Incandescent Flame (Martial 3.7)
aka Leif - Skohir Warped One (Martial 2.6)
aka Rurik - Nol Dappan War Priest (Divine 2.3)
aka Karthik - Tultipetan Stonemason (Expert 1.4)


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 Post subject: Re: val'Emman versus val'Virdan
PostPosted: Thu Jan 29, 2015 9:22 pm 
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Location: Portland OR
I mostly agree with Cody's interpretation. Especially where it deals with Erduk. I believe there is still at least some animosity in most places.

Belloc val'Emman (née Virdan) was a figure in the old campaign who rediscovered the Val Emman mentagi and name. He settled in Enpyben after he lost his legs and the Val Emman gathered around him and largely fought for the rebels (as the Virdan largely fought with the loyalists). So that's why there's a strong val'Emman enclave in Enpyben.

I don't know, but suspect that there is a large val'Emman presence in Nova Cormata since that area is closest to thier ancestral land of Chendo (now known as Dhar Zhan Vor). If so, I suspect in Novo Cormatta that there is a lot less overt antagonism as a new Provence is carved out of the boonies of the Empire.

I agree Canceri is an interesting question. I suspect the Val Emman family does not fare well there. Politics are ruthless and brutal in that country and I don't see the Val'Virdan being eager to share power or influence ... unless the Val Emman take on a role similar to a vassal family and support them against the Mehan and the Mordane. Probably not happening....

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Eric Gorman

AKA Ambassador Tukufu, man of letters, tomb raider and Master Sword Sage
. . . and Sir Szymon val'Holryn, Order of the Phoenix
Formerly Sir Jaeger val'Holryn. Weilder of the Holy Avenger: Thonanos. Gave his soul to help free King Noen


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 Post subject: Re: val'Emman versus val'Virdan
PostPosted: Thu Jan 29, 2015 9:33 pm 
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Location: Southwestern Ohio
My character Ursula val'Holryn was originally of the val'Tensen bloodline like her father Guthrum val'Holryn (from the original campaign). But given her background as a Former Soldier, and the way she evolved in my mind it made more sense to have her follow Nier. Also the val'Emman/val'Virdan bloodline powers made more sense as the character became more refined. Since she's not a priest she doesn't have to embrace the totality of Nier, but follows him as the patron god of warriors. She does love a good fight though... :D To paraphrase Jango Fett, "I'm just a simple woman trying to make my way through the world."

It's funny though, last mod I played her in she turned out to be the best diplomat at the table. I guess you should never underestimate the power of a Tralian Hammer...the ultimate "big stick." ;)

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Michael T. Hebert

Haakon val'Ishi, Beltinian Exorcist 2.7 [Divine]
Ursula val'Holryn, Grand Master of the Tralian Hammer 2.2 [Martial]
Arun of Tultipet, Holy Champion of Neroth 1.10 [Expert]
Rikitsa val'Holryn, Psion 1.9 [Arcane]


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 Post subject: Re: val'Emman versus val'Virdan
PostPosted: Thu Jan 29, 2015 9:35 pm 
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Thanks Eric for the additional information! Which mod was the val'Emman tie to Enpebyn covered? Sounds familiar but I can't place it.

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Michael T. Hebert

Haakon val'Ishi, Beltinian Exorcist 2.7 [Divine]
Ursula val'Holryn, Grand Master of the Tralian Hammer 2.2 [Martial]
Arun of Tultipet, Holy Champion of Neroth 1.10 [Expert]
Rikitsa val'Holryn, Psion 1.9 [Arcane]


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 Post subject: Re: val'Emman versus val'Virdan
PostPosted: Thu Jan 29, 2015 11:30 pm 
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Joined: Fri Sep 27, 2013 10:47 am
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Location: Central Alberta
The tie was established in "Sibling Rivalry", but it has come up ever since then when the city is brought up (I believe "Under a Blood Red Sky" also features info) . Ever since the Mentagi found its way there Enpebyn became the 'capital' of the val'Emmans, even if they are not the ones who actually control the city.

I should also note that depending where you are with the Emmans and Virdans could also affect their relationship. Nierite worship in Milandir is not exactly fashionable, which means that Emmans and Virdans may 'team up' for protection against discrimination in Milandir. Similarly, in the Grand Coryan the two families may be allied with each other in reestablishing the Church of Nier in the Mother Church after centuries of being banned. The relationship between the two is very complicated and I'd love to one day play around with it, as I have ideas ;)

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Cody Bergman
Legends of Arcanis Campaign Staff
Initial Author Contact/Adventure Vetting

Haakon Marcus val'Virdan, Divine Holy Judge of Nier
Ruma val'Vasik, Martial Crusader and Master of the Spear
Jorma Osterman, Arcane Coryani Battlemage


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 Post subject: Re: val'Emman versus val'Virdan
PostPosted: Fri Jan 30, 2015 3:14 pm 
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Thanks for the info. Fortunately my character is not a priest and mostly keeps her worship of Nier to herself. She's not one to push her beliefs on others. She has a more pragmatic view of the world. In some ways she also pays homage to Larissa, because as she puts it "I might be face down in the mud tommorow, dead, so I might as well grab all the gusto I can today!" ;)

As well as seeing the family politics between these two families play out, it would be cool to see how the Larissan schism between the Sensate and Oracular factions is playing out. The mod that dealt with that in the old campaign (can't remember the name) was a lot of fun to play. If they would allow an Oracular style Larissan priest to play I'd probably jump on it. As it's written in the books Larissans seemed skewed toward the Sensates, given the armor (or lack thereof) they are allowed.

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Michael T. Hebert

Haakon val'Ishi, Beltinian Exorcist 2.7 [Divine]
Ursula val'Holryn, Grand Master of the Tralian Hammer 2.2 [Martial]
Arun of Tultipet, Holy Champion of Neroth 1.10 [Expert]
Rikitsa val'Holryn, Psion 1.9 [Arcane]


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