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Pantheonistic Spells
https://forums.paradigmconcepts.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1522		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  val Holryn [ Fri Oct 17, 2014 8:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Pantheonistic Spells
Anyone notice that the Pantheonistic spells make a "daisy chain" through the 12 PoM gods in a perfect circle? Is there a hidden meaning in that?
Author:  Dante [ Thu Oct 23, 2014 1:13 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Pantheonistic Spells
I'll elaborate since I'm the one who brought this up to Eric (yet he's much better than I about posting to the forum).

In the Codex of Heroes, there are a limited number of Pantheonisitc spells that can be cast only by someone who has taken the Path of Dual Faiths, and each spell involves two deities. When I look at the list of spells, I see that they form a complete circle among the 12 Gods of the Pantheon of Men. That is, the chain of dual spells links the 12 in one circle with no other links. I infer that there's a reason for the connection sequence, but I can't figure out what it is. I've considered why it might be and whether it may lead to further insight about the Pantheon.

Illiir <-> Saluwe <-> Hurrian <-> Nier <-> Cadic <-> Larissa <-> Beltine <-> Neroth <-> Yarris <-> Anshar <-> Sarish <-> Althares <-> Illiir

If any two gods could jointly "sponsor" a spell, I'd expect that gamers would have invented spells that connected all sorts of links instead of just this chain; and some of the spells (like the Illiir-Althares Hammer of Radiance) seem pretty wimpy insofar as their need for two deities (that one appears mostly Illiir-focused, but it happens to make a weapon in the shape of a warhammer).

My ideas were all dead ends, but in case they lead somewhere useful, here's a quick list:
family relationships, four elements, Dark Triumvirate, colors of the spectrum, animals of the gods, portfolio, position of Citadels in the Blessed Lands. I couldn't make any of those pan out. I'm at a loss but suspect there's meaning there somewhere.
Author:  val Holryn [ Thu Oct 23, 2014 2:32 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Pantheonistic Spells
My own thoughts go back and forth. If I was laying of Codex of Heroes and I knwe there was only room for Pantheistic 2 spells per deity I might do the Daisy Chain just to make sure everyone got the right number of spells. It could be as simple as that ....

Then again this is Arcanis. Like Dante I find it "suspicious" that the spells we have circle through the PoM. But what meaning might there be in that? I currently have no clue.
Author:  Dante [ Thu Oct 23, 2014 5:23 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Pantheonistic Spells
It isn't just 12 pantheonistic spells (2 per deity) in the Codex of Heroes: it's 13 spells. All 13 fit the pattern, and one pairing of 2 gods (Cadic & Larissa) have two spells shared between them.
Author:  Eric Hughes [ Sat Oct 25, 2014 3:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pantheonistic Spells
Ah then there certainly is a connection, as the 13th spell would connect to The Other, Omar as the Elorri call him. That the Other's spells are the result of a connection to Cadic and Larrissa is interesting in so far that Larrissa's tear for told the end of the world, presumably at the hands of Omar. Cadic would tie in as the assassination of the other.

I also find it interesting that the circle described by the spells does not match the Ruric description as used by the Mother Churches. Remember, how the "The Three" are covered up when holding the Ruric in Milandir? That is not possible given the circle described by the spells.

Finally I find it interesting that it creates a circle in the first place. Isn't the symbol of Kassegore a circle?
Author:  Dante [ Sun Oct 26, 2014 12:15 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Pantheonistic Spells
Eric Hughes wrote:
Finally I find it interesting that it creates a circle in the first place.


The chain is a circle only if you draw it that way. It could be a 12-pointed star hitting all the points in order, a 6-pointed star hitting the outer and inner points, or even an 3-D icosahedron (20-sided-polyhedron) traversing the form in some path. I considered all those in my own investigations.
Author:  Eric Hughes [ Sun Oct 26, 2014 4:09 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Pantheonistic Spells
I figured out some time ago that the POM directly correlates to the nodes on the Gnostic Tree of Life.
Author:  Dante [ Mon Oct 27, 2014 6:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pantheonistic Spells
Eric Hughes wrote:
I figured out some time ago that the POM directly correlates to the nodes on the Gnostic Tree of Life.


I presume you're being sarcastic, Eric, since (a) your curt tone doesn't elaborate and (b) the number of nodes vs. number of gods doesn't match. If you're serious, though, I'd love to hear more of your theory.
Author:  Eric Hughes [ Mon Oct 27, 2014 7:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pantheonistic Spells
No sarcasim. If you accept that Anshar/Yig/Belisarda are one in the same and are not part of the human pantheon as originally formed the nodes match in number. Then the nodes line up according to the Brother/Sister/Husband/Wife relationships outlined in the codex. Anshar/Yig/Belisarda represent the image of the snake sometimes depicted as trapped inside the tree. I had everything mapped out to a png file some time back. But I seam to have lost track of the file some time ago.
Author:  Dante [ Mon Oct 27, 2014 8:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pantheonistic Spells
Regarding: Eric Hughes' Tree of Life theory:

There were 12 Gods before one of them was absorbed by "the Other." Thus, even if Anshar doesn't count, shouldn't there still need to be 12 nodes in a symbolic relationship in order for it to match up? My quick Web searches show versions of the Tree with 10 or 11 nodes (usually 10). On the other hand, a quick, naive skimming of Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tree_of_life_%28Kabbalah%29) reveals, "the beginning of the Universe [...] is not always pictured in reproductions of the Tree of Life"; and maybe that could be the missing 12th, "gentlest of the Pantheon."

Playing devil's advocate, though, there are so many lines of connection between the nodes in the Tree of Life that it seems like it would be easy to make it match many relationships. An admittedly naive skimming of Website overviews of the Tree of Life doesn't make it seem like the nodes' descriptions match up with the Gods of Men.

Still, I also found the snake depiction in one drawing and like how well it symbolically fits Arcanis' theology.

Even if this is way off base, I bet there's some in-game mystic cult that is convinced that this is the truth and the path to enlightenment.
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