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| Sabinius' Ultimate Loyalties https://forums.paradigmconcepts.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1425 |
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| Author: | val Holryn [ Sat Jul 26, 2014 10:42 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Sabinius' Ultimate Loyalties |
Did we ever prove that Sabinius was working for Infernals or other dark powers? It was strongly suggested in the first campaign not least in one of the pieces of fiction following one of the BIs (or maybe The Storm). There was also all the screwed up stuff he encouraged/pressured High Templar Tillman to try in the Crusade arc. Even Two years past the Crusade i want to be careful with spoilers. And of course a secret about him came out in the final Court of Milandir LARP and at least 3-4 NPCs put a hit on him (Secretly and OOC led by Osric Himself). But did we ever uncover who his secret "master" was? |
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| Author: | Nierite [ Sat Jul 26, 2014 11:02 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Sabinius' Ultimate Loyalties |
I admit I wasn't around for most of the LARP's and such, so I am basing this off of highly incomplete information: Either he was a servant (willing or no) of the Mourners, or he did it all for his own ambition. I could swing either way. Sabinius always seemed to be out for his own ambition, making moves calculated to increase his power and not to ensure the benefits of the souls of his flock. Conflict with Coryan after the Civil War and leading up to the Almeric independence? Separate from the Mother Church and form our own sect! Ensure the loyalty of the Black Talons during the Crusade? Suddenly the Fire Dragon's symbol is found on his Ring of Office! Did either of these things help the Church(s) of the Pantheon of Man? Hell no! It split the Mother Church still further, removing some of the most Orthodox and ardent supporters of the faith from the main body and force them to fight with each other (both politically and literally). This serves the Mourner's aims perfectly! It also serves (among others) the Ymandrakes, Ssethregorans, and the Elorii, but many of them would be a bit leery of poking the Human nations into war considering what happened after the Coryani Civil War. This of course assumes that there is a conspiracy of him being controlled by someone and not just doing it for his own power and amusement. It has been said "Chaos isn’t a pit. Chaos is a ladder. Many who try to climb it fail, and never get to try again. The fall breaks them. And some are given a chance to climb, but refuse. They cling to the realm, or love, or the gods…illusions. Only the ladder is real. The climb is all there is. But they’ll never know this. Not until it’s too late." It has also been said, "Some people just want to see the world burn." |
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| Author: | val Holryn [ Sun Jul 27, 2014 2:10 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Sabinius' Ultimate Loyalties |
Except when Sean Smith was playing him at LARPs, Sabinius was never presented in a positive light. (and even with Sean you knew he was bad ... but he was so much fun to interact with) Sabinius definitely served *something* higher than himself. In the First Campaign the was often teaser fiction either before or after a major event like the Storm or several of the BIs. The material was usually OOC. I strongly remember in one of them Sabinius cringing as he received a magical/psionic message from somebody that they weren't all that pleased with what he was doing. Who or what was not revealed. Let's not forget that Sabinius deliberately drove the Sarishians all but out of Milandir as they embarked on the 6th Crusade. That is the primary source of why I suspect he served an infernal or infernals. But it could have been the Silence too for all I know. Also OOC some NPC had a prop called "Sabinius's Secret" at the last King Osric's Court LARP and it presumably made its way to the King. King Osric's servants approached some other NPCs to pool their efforts to assassinate the Primarch. Sabinius would have been happy to use chaos as a ladder. I love that quote (and Game of Thrones quote) |
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| Author: | Dante [ Mon Nov 24, 2014 9:36 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Sabinius' Ultimate Loyalties |
When a certain group of players tested Sabinus at a LARP to see whether he had any allegiances to the Silence, he passed our test. He may have fooled us, but we believed as a result that he was not with them. |
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| Author: | Hat [ Tue Nov 25, 2014 8:09 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Sabinius' Ultimate Loyalties |
One interesting question is: what became of his ring? He claimed that his ring of office had the symbol of the Fire Dragon inside. Has the ring been recovered and the claim tested? If not, it could provide for an interesting adventure. With a sweep of his hat, Paul |
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| Author: | toodeep [ Tue Nov 25, 2014 4:46 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Sabinius' Ultimate Loyalties |
It seems to me that the inclusion of the fire dragon into the pantheon of man is more helpful against the Silence than for the Silence. After all, it appears that Anshar takes her responsibility towards humans with some seriousness, having taught people her cants and given a line of people her power directly (since she had no valinor to start her Val line). And now presumably she is off fighting off entropy with the rest of the human gods. Even while presumably caring about her original people as well. A similar assimilation od/ alliance with Kassagore seems extremely helpful to both parties, considering the issues he has with the Varn. And actually, the Varn seem like even they could be an important ally against the Silence, or at least the empire, since rumor has it that the empire is fighting a war in the lavender way against the silence. Something I know I would like to learn more about. It makes me wonder how infernals generally feel about the silence? Is there a different infernal realm associated with each sphere, and thus if our world goes into entropy the associated infernal realms will be destroyed as well? Or is there a separate infernal realm that is stationary in the celestial cosmology and thus never threatened by entropy/the silence? the first would seem to make them a natural ally against the silence, but would necessarily limit their numbers/size/usefulness as they would only be related to our sphere. The second situation (if one infernal realm was constant and served all spheres) would make it a much larger and more powerful realm, but would make it less likely to thus care about our specific sphere, since our fates are not linked. But if it is stationary, and vast, than the method of using infernals to stave off entropy may be a means to save our sphere - which is what we've seen being used in the war against entropy in distant planes. Anyone out there understand the celestial dynamics of Arcanis enough to identify which is right? Or know how fiends feel about entropy? |
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| Author: | Nierite [ Tue Nov 25, 2014 5:34 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Sabinius' Ultimate Loyalties |
We don't know SPECIFICALLY how the Infernals view entropy, but we know they all seem to have a desire to remain existing. As far as we are aware (how it is presented to us), Entropy is simply the unmaking of EVERYTHING. We saw this in "Drinking Deeply from the Chalice of Midnight" in the Year of Ill Harvest. We see this in the battles on the Elemental Plane of Earth (can't recall name) in Sorcerous Pacts. As chaotic and evil as the Infernals may be, they as a whole would probably be opposed to entropy, and therefore the Silence as a whole. As to Sabinus being an agent of the Silence, I doubt it. Sabinus may have curried favour with them, but he was in it for himself. He would play anyone, use anyone, and deal with anyone to improve HIS status. Does his inclusion of the Fire Dragon in the Milandric Orthodox Church help the Silence? Not directly, though it does cause strife between the Orthodox Church and the MCoC and the Dark Triumvirate, as well as sow even more discord among the Ssethrics. Sabinus probably did it to curry favour with the Black Talons, help the war against the Infernals (thereby putting Osric in his debt), and increasing his own power by trying to bring the Fire Dragon under HIS control. |
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| Author: | val Holryn [ Wed Nov 26, 2014 3:35 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Sabinius' Ultimate Loyalties |
My best guess has always been that Sabinius was secretly an infernal cultist. This is based on his overwhelming gluttony (one of the 7 deadly sins) and the fiction piece in the old campaign when he cowers from contact with displeased patron. The Silence doesn't operate that way to our knowledge...if you are a minion of the silence you are either deluded and tricked or the victim of mind control. One way or another I was never able to pin anything to his doorstep IC or OOC. The arcanis cosmology is generally thought of as a cosmic onion. In the center massive chaotic energy. Sorcerous pacts suggests that the forces of chaos want to unmake and recreate the universe (over and over again). Next is pure elemental planes. Third ring is the "elemental realms" like those visited in sorcerous pacts. Next out is "our world" the material plane. 5th shell are the celestial and infernal realms. 6th shell is fragmentary realms of ancient horrors. Beyond is the Silence that wants to turn off the universe. Each shell has tiny bubbles or worlds in them. |
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| Author: | drafit [ Wed Nov 26, 2014 4:38 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Sabinius' Ultimate Loyalties |
As I had the 'honor' of playing the wonderful Holy Sabinius many times, all I can say is oh wait that would all be redacted, never mind, carry on, I enjoy the reading. Ken Walz aka The Rotten Bastage and proud of it. |
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| Author: | Dante [ Wed Mar 25, 2015 1:38 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Sabinius' Ultimate Loyalties |
OOC, I can reveal now since the character has passed on.... When I played a certain Old Coryan mod (Living Arcanis) at its premiere with Jeff Witthauer as DM, I asked High Priestess Leola val'Assante' if I could confess to my sins. In our confessional time, I presented to her all the evidence I knew of Sabinus' connections to the Mourners in Silence. I told her other very interesting secrets as well. Jeff said that in his opinion, the IC conversation officially happened. I have no idea whether he told other staff members. |
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