Okay, so on page 170 it says
Obviously, this means that you can't normally take a tier of a talent that you don't qualify for. For example, you can't take Weapon Mastery Tier 3 while you are Tier 2. (Although you can be given that talent early by a path.) But let's say that I started with Weapon Mastery Tier 1 at character creation and I never took Weapon Mastery Tier 2 when I was Tier 2. So now I'm Tier 3 and I take the WM talent. I would gain WM Tier 2. Can I then Take WM Tier 3 later on during Tier 3? Or am I forever doomed to never be able to get WM Tier 5 (barring the possibility of getting it from some path)?

By the letter of the rules, it looks like you can't take it twice in a Tier, period. But I think that the intent was to prevent you from loading up on tiered talents that you are not allowed to use.

Thoughts?

Scott

I am of the opinion that there are many things that if you dont do it within the framework of taking them during that tier you lose them, so I think that your example of weapon mastery you would just be out of luck.

My understanding is that a given Talent can only be taken once per Tier, so if you fall behind by a Tier you won't be able to catch up. It can be frustrating as it means being careful with builds, but it does help focus the character's priorities.

I would be very leery of changing from that interpretation as well. Consider an Expert who has Prestidigitation already takes the following advancements at Tier 4:

1. Select 2 new Skills at 2 Ranks / tier (Arcanum: Meditation, Arcanum: Cants)
2. Path: Spontaneously Awakened Psion
3. Select Any 2 Talents: ASC: Psionics (I), Sabatical (Arcanum: Meditation, Arcanum: Cants, 1 Other Skill)
4. All Skills +1
5. Gain 1 rank to a number of trained skills equal to 3+ your passive logic (Includes both Arcanum)
6. Gain 1 rank to a number of trained skills equal to 3+ your passive logic (Includes both Arcanum) [Expert's Advancement]
7. 1 Talent: ASC: Psionics (II)
8. 1 Talent: ASC: Psionics (III)
9. 1 Talent: ASC: Psionics (IV)
10. +2 All Defenses

Given an insight of 8, the passive arcanum for this character would be 29 (8 ranks for the new skill advancement, 1 for Meditation, 1 for the Path, 3 for skill advancements, 4 for stat). 13 Ranks at the end of T4 is 5 or 6 ranks behind a dedicated caster who was able to get 4 ranks to start, plus sabatical plus 2 more ranks from Paths. Even being behind the dedicated caster, they're potent and this hasn't even been their focus for the first 3 tiers.

Repeat in Tier 5 with Divine Spell Casting which could have been set up any number of ways ahead of time.

One possible "fix" would be to allow for not more than 2 in a single tier, but I still think it's probably best as is.

With a sweep of his hat,

Paul

I would point out there are ways to make up for missed talents, by taking paths that provide those talents after you take the feats themselves.

Correct, and this was something I had been thinking on addressing, you should be able to take a tiered talent more then once per tier but you should be unable to get the NEXT tier early.

OH FINE PEDRO JUST MAKE IT EASY (lol!)



or something along those lines if that's the way you want to go

I would love to see this errata.

I am not convinced this is a good idea. Hat's example is extreme and makes me itchy. I don't really want to see "insta" masters in some facet of the game that should show real and prolonged dedication to master. But maybe some flexibility would be beneficial.

On the one hand it could fix a few things like the val Holryn Bear/Dog which seems to need a little love (see in another thread). It also would place somewhat less emphasis on knowing at creation what you were trying to get to mechanically at Tier5. Those things are good.

On the other hand it destroys the incentive to "burn" talents early to invest in a big payoff down the road (counter spell, Hawkeye). Maybe that dilutes the sense if accomplishment one will have when we finally get there. That might be bad. And as I said I would like to avoid insta-mastery in one tier. Finally it potentially adds even more complexity to the game ... As some of you know my preferred standard for errata is "this fixes a real immediate problem" and is higher than "this would make a cool house rule."

If a revision is being considered perhaps a good balance point would be some ability to double down 1/Tier on Tiered talents so long as you don't go over your character Tier. Perhaps some form of Training talent (Intensify Effort?) that would then bypass the need for errata while still allowing a fix ... Comes at some cost since you then can't select Sabbatical.

*ahem*
Weapon Master.
Zero ranks.


Just getting to T5 will be a big damn deal. I'm not worried about Talent quirks messing with that feeling.

I disagree. I think allowing taking a tiered talent more than once per tier (provided you don't go over your tier) is very necessary. Yes, someone could use it to get insta-mastery but it's much simpler just to errata/clarify this to allow taking it multiple times per tier without further restriction (though I'm also fine with further restrictions if that's how Pedro decides he wants to do it).