If you gain two copies of it in one tier (ie: via a Path), then you do not gain the benefits of the higher tier abilities until YOU are of that higher tier. All it allows is for you to not have to spend another Talent in the later tier to get the talent.

I agree with you, so in the case of the Knights of the order of the Phoenix.
You can't have Loyal companion when you take the Path, and since you must have
Aspirant Knight of the order Phoenix 1st you cannot take Knight of the order of the Phoenix until tier 2.
Knights of the order of the Phoenix grants Loyal companion, and since you did not take Loyal companion as a talent yet, you can then take Loyal companion later on in the tier as a talent.
You are at tier 2 so when you take the Loyal companion later on in the tier as a talent you will get it at tier 2.

Thanks, this solves my problem.

I dont think that logic works, but if you read the other thread Pedro is considering changing the rules

From the answers I have been given,

1) You CAN take a talent in the same tier that you take a path that gives you the same talent.
2) You can't use a talent until you are at the same or higher tier.

If these answers that have been given to me are correct, then the logic is sound.

If you don't believe so then please explain where my logic is flawed.

I recomend reading page 170 and pg 274 in ARPG

As I read it, you cant voulntarily take a tiered talent after its been assigned to you via path, however you can be assigned a talent from a path after you have taken it voulntarily.

Kind of a sweeping generalization, don't you think...

Pg 170
Tiered: Tiered Talents possess one to five Tiers. When
you first take the Talent, you learn its Tier I ability. Once per
subsequent Tier you may take the same Talent again to learn
the Talent’s next Tier ability provided your Hero Tier is at
least as high.

Pg 274
Talents
You gain any Talents listed, including Weapon Training
and Tiered Talents; if you already possess a Talent listed, you
gain no additional benefit. If you already possess Weapon
Training in a listed weapon you may choose another weapon
or choose Weapon Mastery with that weapon instead (or
take the next Tier in Weapon Mastery with that particular
weapon if you already possess it). In the case of Tiered
Talents, you gain the next Tier’s ability, but may not utilize
or benefit from it until you are of an equal Tier. Talents
granted by Paths ignore prerequisites, but not restrictions
(such as a racial restriction)

I believe that these are what you are talking about, but I see nothing here that states that you cannot take a path then a talent.
I can't believe that you are saying you CAN
take a tiered talent then a path that gives you that tiered talent,
but you CAN'T go the other way and take a
path with a tiered talent then the tiered talent.

Is there a course offered somewhere to learn how to build characters?
I could use the college level credit

Arcanis-con is this week, so I would like a ruling. It makes a big difference to me since it means a difference of 35 stamina vs 70 stamina for my mastiff. If the ruling is that you can't take a talent after given it in a path, I can live with it, but then I will have to replace loyal companion with another talent.

Thanks all and see you in 6 days.

then i suggest you email pedro

Yeah, I concur.
Who abused the old Fate score system? Who broke 3.X and resulted in BI's that banned travel magic? Who played the Glory Tier? Who forces the generating of errata? Who did the impossible back when heroism was equated to power?
In my experience the people most likely to bend the rules until they scream are the people succeeding outside the game. The mediocre take an easy cookie-cutter approach. The failing just do what they want. The winners want to keep on winning, they understand it's the destination not the journey that ends up in their bank account.
This isn't really the place for this conversation -unless the chip on my shoulder amounts to an Animal Companion , but I was motivated to speak up in illumination of the idea that not only is the implication of power gamers = losers unfair, but that it also might be simply untrue.

Surprised there has not been talk of reskinning animals, I Have boar/pig theme with my character.

The spirit of the wolf, is spirit of the boar, my loyal companions are pig I rescued at on at on of the adventures, re skinned guard dogs.

I was allowed to use the in combat only after I paid the coin to purchase a guard dog.

As a general un written house rule in my area, GMs had a were to show no mercy to my pigs,

So if there was a Player killer tactic to be used it would be used on a pig, first, to show how deadly the treat was.

Thankfully. My secondary focus is healing, so I would do my best to keep my animal family alive.
Though there would be a massive cheer of "bacon" after a pig died.

Another un written house rule that if a pig was vanquished and then revived, the pig was 'demoralized' for the remainder of the battle and would attempt to carefully leave the fight.


I had 2 loyal companions pigs, 3 trained pigs, I would use the spirit of the boar to travel in the heard.

While others spent their coin on runes armour, me character focus on being humble, avoiding most of the magical items in the game. I have traded a few fine leather armours for feed to present to my animal family.

I also re skinned Horse Into a Raindeer, and is a pack animal for all the books I write and collect. My library. My skill in Beast lore horse is low so the Raindeer....is... Well.... Stubborn as a result.