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 Post subject: Re: Talent/Path - Contradictions/Issues
PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2014 9:24 am 

Joined: Tue Dec 31, 2013 6:32 am
Posts: 68
Location: Jasper, IN
The Templar -> Sword Saint issue is a little foggy. Sword Saint is useful for martial archetypes that can't qualify for Divine Spell Casting, insufficient Charisma score for example. It may grant access to Rudimentary Prayers, but it gives access to Devout talents without Divine Spell Casting.

I consider Sword Saint as a substitute to Templar background and path. If you are a Templar by background or path, take Holy Champion for Devout talent access or Initiate Itinerant for Rudimentary Prayers.

My only issue is Sword Saint -> Templar Initiate for the sake of qualifying for Holy Champion in one step and not two. If Devoted(Ardent) counted as if having Holy Champion or Anointed Priest instead of qualifying for Holy Champion or Anointed Priest, it would be worth taking the two paths after taking Sword Saint.

So maybe Devoted(Ardent) may be an error.

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 Post subject: Re: Talent/Path - Contradictions/Issues
PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2014 10:55 am 

Joined: Sat Oct 05, 2013 12:46 pm
Posts: 1279
lbxzero wrote:
The Templar -> Sword Saint issue is a little foggy. Sword Saint is useful for martial archetypes that can't qualify for Divine Spell Casting, insufficient Charisma score for example. It may grant access to Rudimentary Prayers, but it gives access to Devout talents without Divine Spell Casting.

I consider Sword Saint as a substitute to Templar background and path. If you are a Templar by background or path, take Holy Champion for Devout talent access or Initiate Itinerant for Rudimentary Prayers.

My only issue is Sword Saint -> Templar Initiate for the sake of qualifying for Holy Champion in one step and not two. If Devoted(Ardent) counted as if having Holy Champion or Anointed Priest instead of qualifying for Holy Champion or Anointed Priest, it would be worth taking the two paths after taking Sword Saint.

So maybe Devoted(Ardent) may be an error.


Devoted (Ardent) is not an error as written. It works as originally intended. I can see your argument for wanting the Special Access changed to both open up the option of being an Anointed Priest or Holy Champion or being it's equivalent. That would allow folks to get to Master in a specialty Holy Champion order other than Ansharan Gatekeepers and Twilight Warriors by T5. As the original author of it, I'd support the change, but that's a Pedro call.

With a sweep of his hat,

Paul


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 Post subject: Re: Talent/Path - Contradictions/Issues
PostPosted: Sun Mar 09, 2014 8:28 pm 

Joined: Mon Oct 07, 2013 11:30 pm
Posts: 193
Ss'ressen Divine Archetype grants 'Dragon's Hide' talent.
Anointed Priestess of the Fire Dragon grants same.

Have been told, however, that Pedro said that it stacks.


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 Post subject: Re: Talent/Path - Contradictions/Issues
PostPosted: Fri Mar 14, 2014 4:39 pm 

Joined: Tue Dec 31, 2013 6:32 am
Posts: 68
Location: Jasper, IN
mith wrote:
Ss'ressen Divine Archetype grants 'Dragon's Hide' talent.
Anointed Priestess of the Fire Dragon grants same.

Have been told, however, that Pedro said that it stacks.


I am very certain that it does not stack. You can only obtain Dragon's Hide once.

From one side, this issue also falls before any of the divine-oriented backgrounds and paths that grant deity trainings who are also divine archetype. As such it can be considered a lost talent. But it can be considered that being a divine archetype, you are already trained in the ways of your deity and such backgrounds and paths are for those who after making their initial choices in life wish to pursue a divine path.

But...

To take the Anointed Priest/Priestess path, you must have either Initiate of the Gods background or Initiate Itinerant. Those with the Initiate of the Gods background automatically have Dragon's Hide, meanwhile Initiate Itinerants don't. If you got there through the Devoted Path, you still automatically get Dragon's Hide. Two out of 3 routes to Anointed Preist/Priestess path already have the talent. Therefore, this is a potential issue.

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 Post subject: Re: Talent/Path - Contradictions/Issues
PostPosted: Fri Mar 14, 2014 4:43 pm 
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Joined: Fri Sep 27, 2013 10:47 am
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Location: Central Alberta
lbxzero wrote:
mith wrote:
Ss'ressen Divine Archetype grants 'Dragon's Hide' talent.
Anointed Priestess of the Fire Dragon grants same.

Have been told, however, that Pedro said that it stacks.


I am very certain that it does not stack. You can only obtain Dragon's Hide once.

From one side, this issue also falls before any of the divine-oriented backgrounds and paths that grant deity trainings who are also divine archetype. As such it can be considered a lost talent. But it can be considered that being a divine archetype, you are already trained in the ways of your deity and such backgrounds and paths are for those who after making their initial choices in life wish to pursue a divine path.

But...

To take the Anointed Priest/Priestess path, you must have either Initiate of the Gods background or Initiate Itinerant. Those with the Initiate of the Gods background automatically have Dragon's Hide, meanwhile Initiate Itinerants don't. If you got there through the Devoted Path, you still automatically get Dragon's Hide. Two out of 3 routes to Anointed Preist/Priestess path already have the talent. Therefore, this is a potential issue.


May I draw your attention to page 294

Quote:
Special: If the ss’ressen already possesses Dragon Hide, they
gain Blessed Vitality instead.

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 Post subject: Re: Talent/Path - Contradictions/Issues
PostPosted: Fri Mar 14, 2014 4:52 pm 

Joined: Mon Oct 07, 2013 11:30 pm
Posts: 193
Nierite wrote:
May I draw your attention to page 294

Quote:
Special: If the ss’ressen already possesses Dragon Hide, they
gain Blessed Vitality instead.

That only applies for Sentinel Of The Blazing Worm, though.


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 Post subject: Re: Talent/Path - Contradictions/Issues
PostPosted: Fri Mar 14, 2014 4:59 pm 
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As written yes. The attention being drawn was for Pedro too to include in errata. ;-)

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Haakon Marcus val'Virdan, Divine Holy Judge of Nier
Ruma val'Vasik, Martial Crusader and Master of the Spear
Jorma Osterman, Arcane Coryani Battlemage


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 Post subject: Re: Talent/Path - Contradictions/Issues
PostPosted: Fri Mar 14, 2014 5:40 pm 
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If you are a Martial that takes the background Squire you get advanced armor training twice.

If you are divine and take templar you get your armor training in your gods armor twice. I think armor training comes up a lot for divine or martial. i'm not sure that there is a good way around this.

Divine Archetype, templar - Holy champion of Hurrian ........ Weapon mastery Shields.... not sure they can use shields before that as armor or weapon.

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 Post subject: Re: Talent/Path - Contradictions/Issues
PostPosted: Fri Mar 14, 2014 5:47 pm 
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Golo wrote:
If you are a Martial that takes the background Squire you get advanced armor training twice.


Squire does not get ADVANCED Armour Training, simply Armour Training (Starting Nation). Though yes, this does seem to be a repeat if they are Martial.

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Haakon Marcus val'Virdan, Divine Holy Judge of Nier
Ruma val'Vasik, Martial Crusader and Master of the Spear
Jorma Osterman, Arcane Coryani Battlemage


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 Post subject: Re: Talent/Path - Contradictions/Issues
PostPosted: Fri Mar 14, 2014 5:48 pm 
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Nierite wrote:
Golo wrote:
If you are a Martial that takes the background Squire you get advanced armor training twice.


Squire does not get ADVANCED Armour Training, simply Armour Training (Starting Nation). Though yes, this does seem to be a repeat if they are Martial.


Any background that gives Armor Training is going to repeat with Martial.

John

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