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 Post subject: Talent/Path - Contradictions/Issues
PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2014 9:00 am 
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Joined: Fri Oct 04, 2013 10:23 am
Posts: 1013
Location: Miami Florida
Greetings everyone,

I'm in the process of compiling a list of talents and abilities with "stacking issues".. items seem like they should work together, but don't.

I'm also looking to compile a list of background/path "wasted talents" (talents given twice in the logical background/path chain)

post them here, if you post and find additional issues, edit your post and make sure newer entries are in red and and are followed by the date you added it.


02-18-2014 Clarify that Gladius of Light deals full damage to Undead, Spirits, and Infernals which are Incorporeal

02-18-2014 Blood and Sand, needs clarification on how it modifies talents which use Intimidate, increase bonus, remove and possibly limited tag

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Pedro Barrenechea
Stat Monkey
Minor Deity of Typos

Paradigm Concepts
Miami, Florida


Last edited by PCI_StatMonkey on Wed Feb 19, 2014 12:14 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Talent/Path - Contradictions/Issues
PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2014 9:49 am 
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Joined: Fri Sep 27, 2013 10:40 am
Posts: 2046
NEW:

02/20/2014:
Psionic Inquisitor (Path): Maybe I'm missing something, but how can you worship Sarish (an optional requirement) and have Divine Spell Casting instead of Arcane Spell Casting?


02/19/2014:
Altherian Sharpshooter (Path): This gives Weapon Mastery: Flintlock Rifles, but all instances of Weapon Training and Mastery taken normally apply to both Pistols and Rifles. Should this be corrected to be Weapon Mastery: Flintlocks?

Anointed Priest of Althares (Path): This gives Eclectic Knowledge. However, several related backgrounds (Tutor) and Paths (Knowledge Warden) also give Eclectic Knowledge. Some paths (Knowledge Warden) say if you have Eclectic Knowledge you gain Encyclopedic Memory instead and this one should say that also.

Bard (Path): The Master Level of this Path gives "Adaptation: Spell Song" which only applies to Control (Limited to Elder/Psionic Casting) or Divine Wards and Benediction. To cover Eldritch Sorcery (A traditional path for many bards), this should include the Illusion Tradition as well (Both flavor wise and mechanics wise).

Bowman (Path): The Master Level grants "Weapon Mastery: Bow (T4) specifically. It's possible someone may already have T4 when taking this, so it should just give Weapon Mastery: Bow.

Centurion (Path): The Master Tactician Level doesn't require the Officer Level. Is this intentional?

Elementalist (Path): The Master Level (T3 minimum) gives "Elemental Lore" but since it's not retroactive, you only get the benefits of it for T4 and T5 Arcane Spell Casting. So either someone is likely to have this already as an Elemental Caster and it's wasted, or they only get the benefits for 2 tiers.

Fatespinner (Path): The Initiate Level gives "Pull Upon the Strands of Fate" but I can't find that Talent. Also, the Master Level gives Weapon Mastery: War Fan, but Larissa's weapon is Side Sword so it seems an odd choice.

Kio Duelist (Path): The Keeper Level gives "Learn Martial Technique" but doesn't specify it must be a technique usable with the Kio Sword. Is this intentional?

Order of the Inner Demon (Path): Requirements list "Templar of Sarish (pa)" is this supposed to be Templar of Sarish (Ba) or Templar Itinerant of Sarish (pa)?

Sarishan Binder (Path): Initiate Level requires either Anointed Priest or Sorcerer-Priest, but Sorcerer-Priest already requires Anointed Priest. Anointed Priest gives "Sense Infernal Taint" and this path also gives it, so it's wasted.

Sealord (Path): The Initiate Level gives "Master of the Tops" but that is also given by the requirement of "Anointed Priest of Yarris"





========

Seductivee (Talent): +1 Persuasion (Seduce)
- Since it requires Honeyed Tongue, it's currently only a +1 additional bonus and should stack since it's a specific use of Persuasion

Alien Understanding (Talent): +1 Empathy, +1 Deceit, +1 Persuasion, +1 Knowledge (Undead or Infernals)
- This should stack with other bonuses since it's specific to a type

Judge of Character (Talent): +2 Empathy with your race
- This should stack with other bonuses since it's a specific type

Loyal Companion (Talent): +2 Empathy with Animal Companion
- This should stack with other bonuses since it's to a specific creature

Bound by Blood (Talent): +6 Empathy with your Twin
- This should stack with other bonuses since it's for a specific person

Honeyed Tongue (Talent): +1 Persuasion, + Deceit
- This is the 'core' bonus to Perception and Deceit and should stack with specific instances above

Natural Scent (Talent): +2 Perception, +2 Tracking with Scent
- This should stack with other bonuses since it's specific to scent and comes with a downside

Biological Adaptation (Talent) or Investigator or Shady: +2 Perception (Out of Place) or +1 Perception (Out of Place)
- This should stack with other Perception bonuses since it's specific to this action

Advantageous Defornity (Talent): +1 Perception with Vision
- This should stack with other Perception bonuses since it's for sight only and comes with a downside

Stealthy (Talent): +1 Perception for Hidden Opponents
- This should stack with other Perception bonuses since it's for a specific use

Wary (Talent): +1 Perception
- This is the 'core' bonus to Perception and should stack with the specific instances listed above

Shady (Talent): +1 Larceny (Qu) and +1 Larceny (Lo)
- This is the 'core' bonus to Larceny and should stack with specific instances of the skill use

Born in the Saddle (Talent): +1 Ride, +1 Beast Lore for mounts
- This should stack with other Ride and Beast Lore bonuses since it's for specific uses

Apothecary (Talent): +3 Wilderness Lore, +3 Heal for gathering preparing herbs
- This should stack with other bonuses since it's for specific uses and requires Herbalist

Herbalist (Talent): +1 Wilderness Lore for gathering and preparing herbs
- This should stack with other bonuses since it's for a specific use

Lay of the Land (Talent): +1 Wilderness Lore, +1 Tracking
- This is the 'core' bonus to Wilderness Lore, Tracking and should stack with specific instances of the skill use

Hunter (Talent): +1 Tracking for a specific foe
- This should stack with other bonuses since it's for a specific foe

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- John Bellando

Kelb'Bakari Masalio, Dark-kin Altherian Corsair, Gentleman Archaeologist, and Wandering Bard
"The highest compliment an Altherian can pay you is to shoot you with his flintlock. It means you were worth the expense."


Last edited by Harliquinn on Thu Feb 20, 2014 10:52 am, edited 3 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Talent/Path - Contradictions/Issues
PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2014 10:16 am 
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Joined: Sat Nov 30, 2013 7:09 pm
Posts: 147
Horse Lord: Horse Brother gives you Animal Empathy but requires you to have Loyal Companion: Horse. To gain Loyal Companion you have to have animal empathy. Now that Born in the Saddle is a tiered talent it may make a good replacement.

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A. J. Nicholson
Primary: Lothair, Horse Brother of the Vanomir
Gate Guard: "I am sorry, my Lord, but you may not take your Horse into the party"
Lothair: "I don't understand, the invitations say Lothair plus one."


Last edited by MaurLysander on Tue Feb 18, 2014 10:18 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Talent/Path - Contradictions/Issues
PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2014 10:17 am 
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Joined: Fri Sep 27, 2013 10:47 am
Posts: 2436
Location: Central Alberta
1) Divine/Templar-> Holy Champion of Nier.

Divine = Weapon Training (Flamberge)
Templar = Weapon Training (Flamberge)
Holy Champion = Weapon Training (Flamberge)

2) Martial/Mercenary - Martial grants Armour Proficiency (all, national), Mercenary grants Armour (Light, any national).

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Legends of Arcanis Campaign Staff
Initial Author Contact/Adventure Vetting

Haakon Marcus val'Virdan, Divine Holy Judge of Nier
Ruma val'Vasik, Martial Crusader and Master of the Spear
Jorma Osterman, Arcane Coryani Battlemage


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 Post subject: Re: Talent/Path - Contradictions/Issues
PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2014 10:18 am 

Joined: Sat Oct 05, 2013 12:46 pm
Posts: 1284
PCI_StatMonkey wrote:
I'm also looking to compile a list of background/path "wasted talents" (talents given twice in the logical background/path chain)


Pedro,

My suggestion is just to say that if you gain a talent which you're not legally allowed to take at current tier because you already have it, you simply select a legal replacement talent. This would simplify things immensely and remove confusion.

Consider a Former Legate going for Centurion on to Prefect. They'll eventually get that extra Leadership Talent which keeps getting deferred, but not until Tier 4. Until then, it's effectively a "wasted" talent.

With a sweep of his hat,

Paul


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 Post subject: Re: Talent/Path - Contradictions/Issues
PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2014 10:25 am 
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Joined: Fri Sep 27, 2013 10:40 am
Posts: 2046
Nierite wrote:
1) Divine/Templar-> Holy Champion of Nier.

Divine = Weapon Training (Flamberge)
Templar = Weapon Training (Flamberge)
Holy Champion = Weapon Training (Flamberge)

2) Martial/Mercenary - Martial grants Armour Proficiency (all, national), Mercenary grants Armour (Light, any national).


Obviously Pedro will make final calls, but I'm not sure if #1 is a wasted talent, Weapon Training becomes Weapon Mastery and continues up the Tiers. Sure you can't use it right away, but it's not wasted as you'll get to use it.

I assume "Wasted" talents are duplicate talents that have no alternative. At least with all Weapon Training, you either get to pick another Weapon for it, or take the next tier of Weapon Mastery. Neither is a 'waste'.

As for #2, Martial is your starting nation, but Mercenary can be "any" nation. Again I don't see this as a wasted talent since you get light armor you don't already have.

John

_________________
- John Bellando

Kelb'Bakari Masalio, Dark-kin Altherian Corsair, Gentleman Archaeologist, and Wandering Bard
"The highest compliment an Altherian can pay you is to shoot you with his flintlock. It means you were worth the expense."


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 Post subject: Re: Talent/Path - Contradictions/Issues
PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2014 11:31 am 

Joined: Fri Sep 27, 2013 8:36 am
Posts: 1548
Lay of the Land (Talent): +1 Wilderness Lore, +1 Tracking
- This is the 'core' bonus to Wilderness Lore, Tracking and should stack with specific instances of the skill use

this got fixed in the COH version at tier 2

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Oswald val'Inares V, The True King of Milandir
Harvester Lord of the Eastern Fields of Iowa, and the dominions of Coralville and Dubuque


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 Post subject: Re: Talent/Path - Contradictions/Issues
PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2014 11:59 am 

Joined: Sun Nov 24, 2013 9:12 pm
Posts: 609
Hat wrote:
Consider a Former Legate going for Centurion on to Prefect. They'll eventually get that extra Leadership Talent which keeps getting deferred, but not until Tier 4. Until then, it's effectively a "wasted" talent.

With a sweep of his hat,

Paul

You could wait a tier to take it.

I think granting players a free any talent is over powered.


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 Post subject: Re: Talent/Path - Contradictions/Issues
PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2014 12:08 pm 
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Joined: Fri Sep 27, 2013 10:40 am
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SamhainIA wrote:
Lay of the Land (Talent): +1 Wilderness Lore, +1 Tracking
- This is the 'core' bonus to Wilderness Lore, Tracking and should stack with specific instances of the skill use

this got fixed in the COH version at tier 2


Ah, so it did. It was down in the Tier 2 benefit, so I missed it. It should probably be in a "Special" section but noted!

Thanks

_________________
- John Bellando

Kelb'Bakari Masalio, Dark-kin Altherian Corsair, Gentleman Archaeologist, and Wandering Bard
"The highest compliment an Altherian can pay you is to shoot you with his flintlock. It means you were worth the expense."


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 Post subject: Re: Talent/Path - Contradictions/Issues
PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2014 12:09 pm 

Joined: Sun Nov 24, 2013 9:12 pm
Posts: 609
I'm looking at the long list of specific bonus talents John has and I'm wondering how many talents DON'T do specific instances bonuses. I always thought the intent was for those to not stack, since few of them grant a bonus to the same instance. I know some talents should stack, especially when they grant a bonus to the same roll (honey tongue and seductive).

I'm at work and can't look more into it. But what won't stack after this list?


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