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 Post subject: Shield and Masterful Defense
PostPosted: Tue Feb 04, 2014 10:10 am 
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Joined: Thu Dec 12, 2013 9:49 am
Posts: 62
Location: Iowa City, Iowa
Does a shield count as armor when determining whether or not masterful defense is active?

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 Post subject: Re: Shield and Masterful Defense
PostPosted: Tue Feb 04, 2014 10:24 am 

Joined: Fri Sep 27, 2013 8:36 am
Posts: 1554
there has been no clear ruling on this.

I would say You Can't use a shield and masterful Defense at the same time.

but the floor is open, what does everyone else think?

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 Post subject: Re: Shield and Masterful Defense
PostPosted: Tue Feb 04, 2014 11:02 am 
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Location: Ontario, Canada
I disagree. A tower shield might be a bit much, but I think a buckler or light shield fits perfectly with the spirit of the talent.

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 Post subject: Re: Shield and Masterful Defense
PostPosted: Tue Feb 04, 2014 11:14 am 
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I am in the realm of "You can use a shield with masterful defense". While it wouldn't make logical sense for a tower shield, I think it needs to be simple as "You can use all shields" or "You can't use any shields"

John

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 Post subject: Re: Shield and Masterful Defense
PostPosted: Tue Feb 04, 2014 11:33 am 
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Shields seem to count as both Armor and Weapons. So to keep that consistent I would say no you can't use masterful defense with a Shield because it is armor.

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 Post subject: Re: Shield and Masterful Defense
PostPosted: Tue Feb 04, 2014 11:45 am 
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Joined: Mon Dec 30, 2013 9:55 am
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Location: Northern Idaho
I'm of a mind with Harliquinn on this. While a buckler could arguably fit the spirit of the Talent, for the sake of clarity I would say no shields.

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 Post subject: Re: Shield and Masterful Defense
PostPosted: Tue Feb 04, 2014 12:01 pm 

Joined: Sun Nov 24, 2013 9:12 pm
Posts: 609
Shields don't count as armor for most effects, like spells. But they are on the armor equipment list. So I don't know. Pedro question. I would personally like the answer to be you can masterful and shield, because being unarmored is hard enough already.


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 Post subject: Re: Shield and Masterful Defense
PostPosted: Tue Feb 04, 2014 12:11 pm 
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Yeah the big issue is that sometimes Shields are considered Armor and sometimes not (Training). I think shields are intended to stack with Masterful Defense in general because they both give an Avoidance Bump. Masterful Defense's purposes seems to be to trade AR for Avoidance, not Avoidance for Avoidance. Without checking, do tower shields give SB or something else? That might be a way to differentiate. Masterful Defense stacks with shields that give an SB bonus.

John

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 Post subject: Re: Shield and Masterful Defense
PostPosted: Tue Feb 04, 2014 8:28 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 30, 2013 9:55 am
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Location: Northern Idaho
Harliquinn wrote:
Without checking, do tower shields give SB or something else? That might be a way to differentiate. Masterful Defense stacks with shields that give an SB bonus.

John

From the equipment list:

Tower Shield
Shield Bonus 3
Shield Modifier 4
Cost 50 Sc
Weight 20 lb.
Encumbrance 4


To keep in your line of thinking, you could say shields without the Unwieldy quality.

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 Post subject: Re: Shield and Masterful Defense
PostPosted: Tue Feb 04, 2014 8:47 pm 

Joined: Tue Dec 17, 2013 9:19 am
Posts: 143
As written, I'd say they do stack. There was discussion of this on the old forums, and the concensus was we needed an official answer :) I have at least one player locally that this matters for, because they're runing up a shield. Personally, I like the "can use with shields without the Unwieldy quality"

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