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 Post subject: Re: Churches / Sects Milandric and FireDragon
PostPosted: Tue Feb 04, 2014 1:34 am 
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wilcoxon wrote:
Any chance of an official ruling on this soon? One of my players is probably going to play a female divine ss'ressen.

Also, just to double-check, both males and females can be Templars of the Fire Dragon, correct? Males are just barred from taking Arcane or Divine archetype.


Would love to get words from above on this topic. But I wouldn't hold my breath on it. As generally thoughtful as Team PCI is I don't know that the campaign staff has gotten down to this level of working out how spells and sects interact with political changes.

If it was my personal home campaign my ruling would be that the teachings of cants originating from ancient Ssethregore and the First Imperium are sufficiently different that they would NOT count as the same sect regardless of the political realities on the ground (though maybe an analogue to the Council of Nicaea could harmonize the teachings...) But in a shared world campaign something simple and enforceable (and perhaps more player friendly) is the way to go.

As to Templars, remember that the Ssressen society is more highly regimented than ours. There is nothing stopping a female PC ssressen mechanically, but its a really rare choice. Usually the military sphere is the domain of the guys and spiritual matters (and government) is the role of the ladies.

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 Post subject: Re: Churches / Sects Milandric and FireDragon
PostPosted: Tue Feb 04, 2014 6:36 am 

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SamhainIA wrote:
devin i disagree that those are the only two options, because they dont account for the political nature of the churches in arcanis, all churchs seem to be party to political machinations, sabinus, leola, the ardakene are all great examples of that

Could you go into more detail? Seems like this is covered in my faith vs yours.


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 Post subject: Re: Churches / Sects Milandric and FireDragon
PostPosted: Tue Feb 04, 2014 8:47 am 
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Deviknyte wrote:
SamhainIA wrote:
devin i disagree that those are the only two options, because they dont account for the political nature of the churches in arcanis, all churchs seem to be party to political machinations, sabinus, leola, the ardakene are all great examples of that

Could you go into more detail? Seems like this is covered in my faith vs yours.


A big problem with the "my faith" theory is that you can find yourself on a road to solipsism. "Of course i can smite that valinor ... I believe it 's part of the group that hates humanity...or ... I saw you deep in conversation with Elandre and I am now convinced you are a spy and a traitor to the MOC!" In a home campaign a judge could more easily run on a "my faith" theory. The judge would have greater control over their world and could control what themes and gray areas to introduced. Still all I see is headaches. I much prefer to have some list of in boxes that you have slot yourself into even if that is a little Greg under the story ... Or that we have to revisit as the story evolves.

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Eric Gorman

AKA Ambassador Tukufu, man of letters, tomb raider and Master Sword Sage
. . . and Sir Szymon val'Holryn, Order of the Phoenix
Formerly Sir Jaeger val'Holryn. Weilder of the Holy Avenger: Thonanos. Gave his soul to help free King Noen


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 Post subject: Re: Churches / Sects Milandric and FireDragon
PostPosted: Tue Feb 04, 2014 8:56 am 

Joined: Fri Sep 27, 2013 8:36 am
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@devin

I think the fire dragon is the best example of political religion, the Patriarch of the Mil Orth says hey this god is part of our church and it doesn't matter what the common people believe, nor what the common sseth believe, they are now the same "sect" and they don't smite each other.

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 Post subject: Re: Churches / Sects Milandric and FireDragon
PostPosted: Tue Feb 04, 2014 11:52 am 

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I see what you are saying. But that means it works as in option one. You are just somehow magically protected by the sect.


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 Post subject: Re: Churches / Sects Milandric and FireDragon
PostPosted: Tue Feb 04, 2014 12:12 pm 

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Devin, then i put too much stock into your "grew up in the church" part of #1 but i see what your saying

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 Post subject: Re: Churches / Sects Milandric and FireDragon
PostPosted: Tue Feb 04, 2014 9:26 pm 

Joined: Sun Nov 24, 2013 9:12 pm
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Checks for Church: Just by being recognized in the check you count as that faith. The valinor and gods just know, and smites start missing or hitting. The church deems ss'ressen's and the Fire Dragon are okay in their books. Part of the church. Immediately the valinor and gods just start claiming the ss'ressen (while their alive at least) and they count in the sect for talents and spells. They no longer count for the Ss'ressen Church (Sethregoran?), and some other ss'ressen can smite you now, and you them.

Faith vs Faith Humans: Say I'm the average Milandisan citizen. One day I'm told that the crazy serpent fire dragon god that the Ss'ressen (no matter how I feel about the ss'ressen) is a part of my god's pantheon and always has been. I'm I going to start paying homage to him immediately? When I spin the rings around my fingers and say a blessing to each god am I day one going to mention the Fire Dragon. "I don't remember no dragon in the Cantile of Light." It's going to take time before the Milandisan people recognize the Fire Dragon as a part of their religion. I'm not saying they're going to go out and start protesting or rioting or committing heresy, but no one is going to feel like the Fire Dragon is a part of the church, even a year after they were added. It's going to take years of ceremony and etc for a large change like that to take effect in peoples hearts. Or it'll take some enforcement, like with force/fear. Or some "miracle" or event that shows what the Fire Dragon is one of them, some ss'ressen saint dying for Milandir or something.

Faith vs Faith Ss'ressen: The ss'ressen side. Are the priestess of the Fire Dragon moving into the grand temples in Naaranth? Will the average ss'ressen start thanking Larissa tomorrow? Ask Hurrian for good winds? I don't think so.

Faith vs Faith Politics: This is a political union. All the members of BEAST know that the Fire Dragon isn't cavorting with valinor right now. Because this is a political union both "churches" will start easing the other's teaching together. Current priest and priestess will be told to pay respect to the new minor deity(s). A festival for the Fire Dragon will start be to held once a year. A Hurrianic ritual will be had for ss'ressen warriors. 50 years from now a young human couple will be telling their children of how the Fire Dragon was lost to the Pantheon, adopted by snakes and then rediscovered through the noble ss'ressen. And some flip story will be told to hatchlings. That's when, IMO, the ss'ressen will be a part of the faith.

Is their grey area here? Yes. Some people will take the change sooner, some will take longer. But there is grey area with the magically protected part too.

I personally have no idea what is going on in either the Milandisan or Black Talon churches. Do not take my stories to heart. They are examples.

Anyways, I don't know the answer. I just know it takes time or incentive or force for changes in the faith to take hold. Human history is proof of that.


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