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 Post subject: Churches / Sects Milandric and FireDragon
PostPosted: Mon Feb 03, 2014 12:35 pm 

Joined: Fri Sep 27, 2013 8:36 am
Posts: 1554
here is another opinion poll:

Are the Black Talons / Fire Dragon part of the Milandric Church Sect, and does that go both directions?


My opinion is yes, Sabinus has formally recognized the Fire Dragon as part of the Milandric Sect and I think that that particular aspect of who belongs where is more political in nature rather than faith based.

I recognize that the political/ Faith argument is a shining example of a slippery slope, but I think the intent is to split up groups of PCs into larger fiath groups rather than splintered faith groups (if they wanted splintered faith groups that would have said god instead of church)

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 Post subject: Re: Churches / Sects Milandric and FireDragon
PostPosted: Mon Feb 03, 2014 12:44 pm 
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I agree that the Fire Dragon as part of the Pantheon is the same sect as the Milandisian Church (but not Mother Church).

John

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 Post subject: Re: Churches / Sects Milandric and FireDragon
PostPosted: Mon Feb 03, 2014 5:06 pm 
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Joined: Fri Sep 27, 2013 1:06 am
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Location: Portland OR
...see below

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Eric Gorman

AKA Ambassador Tukufu, man of letters, tomb raider and Master Sword Sage
. . . and Sir Szymon val'Holryn, Order of the Phoenix
Formerly Sir Jaeger val'Holryn. Weilder of the Holy Avenger: Thonanos. Gave his soul to help free King Noen


Last edited by val Holryn on Mon Feb 03, 2014 5:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Churches / Sects Milandric and FireDragon
PostPosted: Mon Feb 03, 2014 5:09 pm 
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Location: Portland OR
val Holryn wrote:
So very wiggly ...

Okay. Just what did Sabinius mean?

Did he mean "Hey you lizard men have been saying FD isn't Nier forever and we politically need you so I'm dropping the whole issue and we accept whatever you're doing cause we basically trust you not to be monsters or eat babies or something...and it's not likely your souls share space with us in the Cauldron anyway. Let's just say FD is part of the MIlandesian Orthodox Church, you'll keep worshipping him and we won't interfere, and we'll all move on to fighting the Crusade."

Or ...

Did the Fat Coryani mean, "we're all Milandesian brothers. Let's set up temples and if humans want to pray to the FD that's totally cool in my book. By the by if a Ss'ressen wants to worship Illiir or Beltine you should be cool with that too. FYI I am the last word on religious matters in Milandir too. The Fire Dragon is one temple of many,"

And now that he's dead (Sabinius) how are people interpreting, reinterpreting and misinterpreting his words and intentions.

Having a LARP to hash this out might clarify a lot of this (or reveal interesting fault lines of conflict)...as well as announce who the heck is the next Primarch of Milandir.


BTW for purposes of judges worrying about Sects I think FD currently counts as MOC.

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Eric Gorman

AKA Ambassador Tukufu, man of letters, tomb raider and Master Sword Sage
. . . and Sir Szymon val'Holryn, Order of the Phoenix
Formerly Sir Jaeger val'Holryn. Weilder of the Holy Avenger: Thonanos. Gave his soul to help free King Noen


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 Post subject: Re: Churches / Sects Milandric and FireDragon
PostPosted: Mon Feb 03, 2014 5:20 pm 

Joined: Sat Sep 28, 2013 6:45 pm
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I could also very easily see a LARP centered on this sort of question resulting in a religious war between Milandir and Coryan....... hummm..... Great idea Eric!

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 Post subject: Re: Churches / Sects Milandric and FireDragon
PostPosted: Mon Feb 03, 2014 7:06 pm 

Joined: Sun Nov 24, 2013 9:12 pm
Posts: 609
The question depends on how sect/church checks work in universe.

1) By becoming a part of a church or being born and raise with that's church's teaching you are somehow divinely blessed by the church and thus count as the same effect for spells.

2) Your actual belief is what makes you a part of a church. Believing in that church and/or teaching is what matters. In universe your faith attacks their faith.


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 Post subject: Re: Churches / Sects Milandric and FireDragon
PostPosted: Mon Feb 03, 2014 7:25 pm 

Joined: Fri Sep 27, 2013 8:36 am
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devin i disagree that those are the only two options, because they dont account for the political nature of the churches in arcanis, all churchs seem to be party to political machinations, sabinus, leola, the ardakene are all great examples of that

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 Post subject: Re: Churches / Sects Milandric and FireDragon
PostPosted: Mon Feb 03, 2014 7:33 pm 
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Personally I don't think they count yet, but there is no evidence to suggest they don't. I personally would think that for the Divine spells to 'count' someone as your own faith, you have to truly BELIEVE that they are of the same faith as you. While the Ss'ressen have been part of Milandir for almost 300 years, they have remained separate and isolationist within Milandir for most of that time. While Milandesians may view the Fire Dragon as an allied deity, I really doubt that they would consider it an equal to--say--Illiir or Yarris or Saluwe'.

Similarly, the Black Talons have shown no real desire in story to be 'part' of the Human world. Sure, they send warriors to Duke val'Holryn and the King of Milandir (including serving as King's Champion), but that seems more like them satisfying a treaty rather than truly attempting to merge themselves with their protector state. Also, remember that the Ssethric Inquisitors of the Black Talons are every bit as zealous at stamping out 'inappropriate worship of the Fire Dragon' as the Coryani Inquisition is in its mission. Adding all the outside influences (including adding the faith of Nier to its own canticle, smacking them of the traitorous Ashen Hides) would give them a far bigger existential crisis than Milandir would get in the situation.

If it does work, I think Milandesian humankin would be far more willing to accept the FD than the Ss'ressens are accepting the Pantheon, and I think the disparity would keep them from fully 'being' in the same church.

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Legends of Arcanis Campaign Staff
Initial Author Contact/Adventure Vetting

Haakon Marcus val'Virdan, Divine Holy Judge of Nier
Ruma val'Vasik, Martial Crusader and Master of the Spear
Jorma Osterman, Arcane Coryani Battlemage


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 Post subject: Re: Churches / Sects Milandric and FireDragon
PostPosted: Mon Feb 03, 2014 9:52 pm 

Joined: Sun Sep 29, 2013 4:12 pm
Posts: 1037
Any chance of an official ruling on this soon? One of my players is probably going to play a female divine ss'ressen.

Also, just to double-check, both males and females can be Templars of the Fire Dragon, correct? Males are just barred from taking Arcane or Divine archetype.

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G'hyu'thyh Sungha - Martial Templar of Illiir 1.7
Eryk Bauer - Martial Awakened 1.2


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 Post subject: Re: Churches / Sects Milandric and FireDragon
PostPosted: Mon Feb 03, 2014 9:59 pm 
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Location: Central Alberta
Males not only can become a Templar, but that is the only church path they are specifically 'encouraged' to join. Basically instead of being in the Clutch military, you are in the Church military. They just don't encourage you to become MORE than a Templar.

Also of note: It was said that Male Ss'ressen CAN get Devout talents, including DSC, but they have to get it the hard way (just like Shamanism).

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Cody Bergman
Legends of Arcanis Campaign Staff
Initial Author Contact/Adventure Vetting

Haakon Marcus val'Virdan, Divine Holy Judge of Nier
Ruma val'Vasik, Martial Crusader and Master of the Spear
Jorma Osterman, Arcane Coryani Battlemage


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