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Starting Languages Poll
https://forums.paradigmconcepts.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=649		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  SamhainIA [ Fri Jan 31, 2014 5:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Starting Languages Poll
Quote:
Your hero’s homeland provides him with some rudimentary skills and determines if the character is automatically literate.
• Choose a Region and Nation from Table 2-6: Regional Skills.
• Choose 2 Skills from your home nation and add 1 Skill Rank to each.
• Also, choose 1 of the Native languages as appropriate.


the line "Also, choose 1 of the Native languages as appropriate."

Does it mean:
Author:  Harliquinn [ Fri Jan 31, 2014 5:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Starting Languages Poll
Says submitted form invalid.
Author:  SamhainIA [ Fri Jan 31, 2014 5:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Starting Languages Poll
It looks like its a Pedro problem then, cause i cant fix it
Author:  Deviknyte [ Fri Jan 31, 2014 8:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Starting Languages Poll
Poll wouldn't work for me.

I believe both your racial and nation languages should not count against your bonus languages from passive logic.

I would also like to say you shouldn't be allowed to pick ANY language on your national list, it should still make sense.
Author:  archangel [ Fri Jan 31, 2014 8:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Starting Languages Poll
Deviknyte wrote:
Poll wouldn't work for me.

I believe both your racial and nation languages should not count against your bonus languages from passive logic.

I would also like to say you shouldn't be allowed to pick ANY language on your national list, it should still make sense.

this sums up my thoughts as well. Though if you are running out of national languages that make sense you should still be able to pick others that are more of a stretch.
Author:  Harliquinn [ Fri Jan 31, 2014 9:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Starting Languages Poll
The "as appropriate" indicates you should pick a language that you know due to your region. I agree with the above.

John
Author:  wilcoxon [ Sat Feb 01, 2014 12:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Starting Languages Poll
Polls don't seem to work on these forums (at least I've never seen one that didn't give an error when submitting).

Personally, I think your racial language(s) don't count but your national language does count. Otherwise, everyone ends up with tons of languages (even with this interpretation, everyone will have at least 3 languages).

One thing that still seems odd to me is if you play a race that grants a national language and you are from a nation with more than one national language then, by my reading of the rules, you must select a second national language.
Author:  Hard Eight [ Sat Feb 01, 2014 12:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Starting Languages Poll
wilcoxon wrote:
One thing that still seems odd to me is if you play a race that grants a national language and you are from a nation with more than one national language then, by my reading of the rules, you must select a second national language.

It makes sense to me. If your nation speaks more than one language, it stands to reason that after you've learned whatever tongue your family and immediate neighbors speak, you'd learn what the next province over speaks just due to proximity/exposure.

I agree with Deviknyte, racial/national languages shouldn't count against your passive logic bonus languages.
Author:  The Vault [ Fri Feb 14, 2014 10:48 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Starting Languages Poll
If you follow the character creation rules from pages 93 to 96, and specifically read Steps 4 and 5. Also the Linguistics skill on pg 155, under Learn Language.
Quote:
In addition, at Hero creation, each Hero learns a number of Languages equal to their Passive Logic Value, one must be your national language.


When you look at the characters built on the step by step process you see the Val from Coryan has 3 languages and a passive Logic of 2. High Coryani is a free racial language, Low Coryani is his national language (which the first language selected must be), and Milandisian is his second language (after the first it can be any language)

The second example is the Elorii from Elonbe. She has 5 languages with a Passive Logic of 3. Low Coryani, and Eloran are both Racial languages (and thus free). Because Eloran is also the only national language for Elonbe she didn't have to buy it, so her other 3 languages are Kio, Ssethric, Ss'ressen.
Author:  Harliquinn [ Fri Feb 14, 2014 11:03 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Starting Languages Poll
The Vault wrote:
If you follow the character creation rules from pages 93 to 96, and specifically read Steps 4 and 5. Also the Linguistics skill on pg 155, under Learn Language.
Quote:
In addition, at Hero creation, each Hero learns a number of Languages equal to their Passive Logic Value, one must be your national language.


When you look at the characters built on the step by step process you see the Val from Coryan has 3 languages and a passive Logic of 2. High Coryani is a free racial language, Low Coryani is his national language (which the first language selected must be), and Milandisian is his second language (after the first it can be any language)

The second example is the Elorii from Elonbe. She has 5 languages with a Passive Logic of 3. Low Coryani, and Eloran are both Racial languages (and thus free). Because Eloran is also the only national language for Elonbe she didn't have to buy it, so her other 3 languages are Kio, Ssethric, Ss'ressen.


You didn't say which way your examples were meant to support, but it seems that Val example supports Option 1 and the Elorii example supports Option 2.

1) Option 1: If you already have your National Language by the time you get to Skills, you 'lose' 1 point of Passive Logic in languages since it's still taken up by your National Language.

2) Option 2: If you already have your National Language by the time you get to Skills, you can choose your full Passive Logic in other languages.

In the examples above, both characters have their "Racial" (Free) languages Plus a full complement of 'other' languages using their full Passive Logic value. Whether they got a free (and redundant) National Language at the "Choose Nation/Region" step is hard to say.

looking at the Val writeup in the rules, it seems that the 'fluff' for languages doesn't match the 'crunch' for languages. The fluff says nearly all Val speak High Coryani in addition to Low Coryani, yet under Languages, it says they all get "High Coryani" none automatically get "Low Coryani" unless they are from Coryan and its their Native Language.

John
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