Last visit was: It is currently Mon Oct 21, 2019 8:17 pm


All times are UTC - 5 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 23 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: commune with the spirits
PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 3:52 pm 

Joined: Sat Oct 05, 2013 12:46 pm
Posts: 1312
I recommend getting an official ruling on this. It had been covered on the old site, but apparently didn't make the transition.

With a sweep of his hat,

Paul


Top
Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: commune with the spirits
PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 6:58 pm 

Joined: Fri Dec 13, 2013 5:44 pm
Posts: 147
Location: Cajun Country
Hat wrote:
I recommend getting an official ruling on this. It had been covered on the old site, but apparently didn't make the transition.

With a sweep of his hat,

Paul

Do you recall the gist of it?

As to casting source It clearly states you cast it as a primal spell, so to me that means you aren't casting it as a psionic, divine, elder, etc. Obviously those are off limits if you aren't casting as that type of caster. I'm more on the fence on those that are tradition specific, but would lean towards not for game balance.


Top
Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: commune with the spirits
PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 9:54 pm 

Joined: Sat Oct 05, 2013 12:46 pm
Posts: 1312
My recollection is that elder and psionic only spells weren't available. I don't recall if part of the underlying explanation was that the source was incompatible with the weilder or not. I believe the adaptations were fine again without those two sources. The question of Tier didn't come up as it was the beginning of the campaign, so things like prerequisite spell components weren't on the radar.

I certainly would recommend getting Pedro to weigh in. Even if my recollection is accurate from then, things have refined since then.

With a sweep of his hat,

Paul


Top
Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: commune with the spirits
PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 10:24 pm 

Joined: Thu Nov 07, 2013 9:37 pm
Posts: 806
Location: Michigan
archangel wrote:
Obviously those are off limits if you aren't casting as that type of caster.


Obviously not obviously, though I agree we need a ruling to clarify.

_________________
AKA Kavaris, awakened "Human" from the Hinterlands, psionic transmutation specialist, adventurer, and no one important


Top
Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: commune with the spirits
PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 11:20 pm 

Joined: Fri Dec 13, 2013 5:44 pm
Posts: 147
Location: Cajun Country
toodeep wrote:
archangel wrote:
Obviously those are off limits if you aren't casting as that type of caster.


Obviously not obviously, though I agree we need a ruling to clarify.

That is linked to the line before it. If A then B.

edit: after rereading what was said I think we are actually in agreement but talking past each other. I'm talking about source dependent adaptations, those that explicitly state Primal, Psionic, Sorc. Priest, etc and you were talking about Tradition specific ones. Those would still be valid because the spell is still of that tradition otherwise you couldn't select it in the first place.


Last edited by archangel on Sat Feb 01, 2014 11:59 am, edited 1 time in total.

Top
Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: commune with the spirits
PostPosted: Sat Feb 01, 2014 5:01 am 

Joined: Tue Dec 17, 2013 9:19 am
Posts: 144
As I was playing a shaman at the time, I asked a lot of questions about this spell on the old forums. The official answers were as follows (though, it obviously needs to be reiterated/confirmed on the new forums):

1) Elder and Psionic only spells are not available

2) The spell is treated as belonging to the appropriate school (tradition) of Corpus, Illusion, etc., and spell-specific adaptations permitted under that auspice were also permitted. The rationale was reinforced by the mention that creatures immune to said tradition would be immune to the Commune-granted version as well.

3) Prerequisite spells are ignored. (I was the one that asked that question in particular, so I remember it very well)

_________________
Paul Baughman (no hat)
Belthazor Nádasdy val'Mehen of Nishanpur, Bearer of "False Yet True", Noble Born Sorcerer-Priest of Sarish, val'Mehan Emissary


Top
Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: commune with the spirits
PostPosted: Sat Feb 01, 2014 5:55 pm 

Joined: Thu Nov 07, 2013 9:37 pm
Posts: 806
Location: Michigan
Encali wrote:
As I was playing a shaman at the time, I asked a lot of questions about this spell on the old forums. The official answers were as follows (though, it obviously needs to be reiterated/confirmed on the new forums):

1) Elder and Psionic only spells are not available

2) The spell is treated as belonging to the appropriate school (tradition) of Corpus, Illusion, etc., and spell-specific adaptations permitted under that auspice were also permitted. The rationale was reinforced by the mention that creatures immune to said tradition would be immune to the Commune-granted version as well.

3) Prerequisite spells are ignored. (I was the one that asked that question in particular, so I remember it very well)


Thanks! I would like to see that confirmed, but that is pretty much the split I would have made myself and it seems right.

_________________
AKA Kavaris, awakened "Human" from the Hinterlands, psionic transmutation specialist, adventurer, and no one important


Top
Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: commune with the spirits
PostPosted: Sat Feb 01, 2014 8:36 pm 
User avatar

Joined: Fri Oct 04, 2013 10:23 am
Posts: 1026
Location: Miami Florida
Nierite wrote:
I think that this is where our opinions diverge, Sir toodeep, because my read of the text tells me fairly clearly you do not get the tradition. The text of the spell Commune with Spirits says:

Commune with spirits wrote:
. . . this boon takes
the shape a single spell from the
Corpus, Illusions, or Control
Traditions.


It does not say that "You gain access to the Corpus, Illusions, and Control Traditions and the ability to cast one spell from one of these three traditions for 24 hours", it simply says you gain access to a single spell from the tradition. Because there is a VERY long list of spells in those three traditions, it makes much more sense from a word count perspective to just say "You can choose a single spell from the list provided later in this document" rather than individually listing each out.

That said, while you get to choose a single spell from Corpus, Illusions, or Control, none of those Traditions are playable for Primals. In fact, that is one of the core concepts of their casting options. As such, you gain access to one of these spells through a SPELL, not through the base tradition. Your "Tradition" for the spell gained is "Commune with Spirits" because you have not received training or access to the actual tradition that they originally came from. The metanarrative reason for Tradition, Path, or any other special adaptation is that by learning that spell through that method, you are taught new ways of manipulating it. It is the same concept as a Secret or Exotic spell. Since you do not have this training, but simply gain the power by selling your soul to a quasi-divine being, you do not have access to this special training.

I could be wrong, and if so I'm sorry, but my reading of the text does not support the argument that you 'gain the tradition along with the spell.'


Cody,

you hit the nail on the head

_________________
Pedro Barrenechea
Stat Monkey
Minor Deity of Typos

Paradigm Concepts
Miami, Florida


Top
Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: commune with the spirits
PostPosted: Sat Feb 01, 2014 11:10 pm 

Joined: Tue Dec 17, 2013 9:19 am
Posts: 144
Dammit, Pedro, that doesn't really give him the answer he was looking for :) So I'm guessing that's a "no" for Tradition adaptations, but is the rest of what I remembered still accurate? (No Elder/Psionic and ignore prerequisite spells)

_________________
Paul Baughman (no hat)
Belthazor Nádasdy val'Mehen of Nishanpur, Bearer of "False Yet True", Noble Born Sorcerer-Priest of Sarish, val'Mehan Emissary


Top
Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: commune with the spirits
PostPosted: Sun Feb 02, 2014 4:02 pm 
User avatar

Joined: Fri Oct 04, 2013 10:23 am
Posts: 1026
Location: Miami Florida
Encali wrote:
Dammit, Pedro, that doesn't really give him the answer he was looking for :) So I'm guessing that's a "no" for Tradition adaptations, but is the rest of what I remembered still accurate? (No Elder/Psionic and ignore prerequisite spells)



Correct its a NO for Tradition adaptations, and it should be a no for the rest (elder and psionic spells for example) but that's something that needs to be clarified in the spell.

_________________
Pedro Barrenechea
Stat Monkey
Minor Deity of Typos

Paradigm Concepts
Miami, Florida


Top
Offline Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 23 posts ]  Moderators: james.zwiers, PCI Eric, PCI_StatMonkey Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group
Theme created StylerBB.net & kodeki