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 Post subject: Re: Casting ranged spells into melee?
PostPosted: Sun Jan 05, 2014 10:31 am 

Joined: Sun Nov 24, 2013 9:12 pm
Posts: 609
On the old forums the ruling was any and all ranged attacks, powers and spells took the negative 4. Spells are powerful enough cited as one of the reasons. They didn't need anymore help.


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 Post subject: Re: Casting ranged spells into melee?
PostPosted: Sun Jan 05, 2014 10:56 am 

Joined: Fri Sep 27, 2013 11:41 am
Posts: 486
Location: Fort Wayne, IN
deviknyte wrote:
On the old forums the ruling was any and all ranged attacks, powers and spells took the negative 4. Spells are powerful enough cited as one of the reasons. They didn't need anymore help.


That is what I thought as well. I don't remember spells vs. Discipline being given a special exception. Iirc, the benefit to avoid the penalty was only negated to Avoidance via Arcane Accuracy/Blessed Inscriptions because Discipline and Fortitude were considered easier to hit, anyway.

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 Post subject: Re: Casting ranged spells into melee?
PostPosted: Sun Jan 05, 2014 11:02 am 
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mighty28 wrote:
deviknyte wrote:
On the old forums the ruling was any and all ranged attacks, powers and spells took the negative 4. Spells are powerful enough cited as one of the reasons. They didn't need anymore help.


That is what I thought as well. I don't remember spells vs. Discipline being given a special exception. Iirc, the benefit to avoid the penalty was only negated to Avoidance via Arcane Accuracy/Blessed Inscriptions because Discipline and Fortitude were considered easier to hit, anyway.


You might be right in terms of Discipline from the old forums. I thought I remembered in the answer that since Discipline uses your casting Attribute, it was more force of will upon a target, and therefore wasn't being 'aimed' at them through a combat.

John

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 Post subject: Re: Casting ranged spells into melee?
PostPosted: Sun Jan 05, 2014 11:07 am 

Joined: Sun Sep 29, 2013 4:12 pm
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If -4 for spells into melee is the official ruling, that's what I'll go with. I just don't see it - opponents are usually in melee and -4 will more than make up for Fort/Disc being "easier to hit" (from what I've seen, there is not a 4 difference between Avoidance and other defenses (except for some player characters)). I think there needs to at least be a talent similar to Arcane Accuracy that works with Fort/Disc spells.

A quick look through the stat blocks for HP1-14 (BI) shows a total of 1 enemy with Avoidance 4 higher than Fort or Disc and multiple enemies with Fort or Disc higher than Avoidance. I fail to see any such "easier to hit".

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 Post subject: Re: Casting ranged spells into melee?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 06, 2014 3:04 am 

Joined: Fri Oct 11, 2013 5:01 am
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Seperate but related problem: is there a way to penalise players who are using very careful placing of templates to avoid players but maximise enemy targets in melee?


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 Post subject: Re: Casting ranged spells into melee?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 06, 2014 5:08 am 

Joined: Tue Dec 17, 2013 9:19 am
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As long as the templates line up on the proper edges of the "squares" the potential targets occupy, they're doing what they're supposed to do, but remember to levy whatever penalties are appropriate (firing into melee, cover, what not).

Back on the original subject, there has not, to my knowledge, been a change to the rules (old forums or otherwise). Avoidance and Fortitude DO get a penalty for firing into melee (though talents can help with the former), while Discipline does NOT.

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 Post subject: Re: Casting ranged spells into melee?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 06, 2014 6:44 am 
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mininin wrote:
Seperate but related problem: is there a way to penalise players who are using very careful placing of templates to avoid players but maximise enemy targets in melee?


I don't think that warrants penalizing. That's part of what being a good caster means. Just make sure they are using the correct templates and can see the point of origin clearly (That's the key).

John

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 Post subject: Re: Casting ranged spells into melee?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 06, 2014 8:09 am 

Joined: Sat Oct 05, 2013 12:46 pm
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mighty28 wrote:
deviknyte wrote:
On the old forums the ruling was any and all ranged attacks, powers and spells took the negative 4. Spells are powerful enough cited as one of the reasons. They didn't need anymore help.


That is what I thought as well. I don't remember spells vs. Discipline being given a special exception. Iirc, the benefit to avoid the penalty was only negated to Avoidance via Arcane Accuracy/Blessed Inscriptions because Discipline and Fortitude were considered easier to hit, anyway.


My recollection was that there was an exception for Discipline. This may have changed over time, but that's what I remember. Maybe Pedro can give us an official clarification.

With a sweep of his hat,

Paul


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 Post subject: Re: Casting ranged spells into melee?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 06, 2014 10:50 am 

Joined: Sun Sep 29, 2013 4:12 pm
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Encali wrote:
Back on the original subject, there has not, to my knowledge, been a change to the rules (old forums or otherwise). Avoidance and Fortitude DO get a penalty for firing into melee (though talents can help with the former), while Discipline does NOT.


Can you please point to the rule that says this? If there was something on the old forums, it's (unfortunately) been lost like so many other valuable conversations...

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 Post subject: Re: Casting ranged spells into melee?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 06, 2014 11:03 am 
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Location: Central Alberta
In all fairness, I tend to apply then penalty even with Discipline for consistency. After all, there is NOTHING in the rules to say otherwise. I do remember posts on the old boards that say otherwise, but until they are in a format we can refer to, nobody has a clear recollection of them and they are not (necessarily) LA official.

Add to an errata or have a PCI post, and I'm all for it. Personally, all should be kept the same IMHO.

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