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 Post subject: Casting ranged spells into melee?
PostPosted: Sat Jan 04, 2014 6:14 pm 

Joined: Sun Sep 29, 2013 4:12 pm
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If you cast a ranged spell at a target in melee, do you take the penalties as with a bow? Does it depend on which defense is targeted?

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 Post subject: Re: Casting ranged spells into melee?
PostPosted: Sat Jan 04, 2014 6:15 pm 
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Joined: Fri Sep 27, 2013 10:47 am
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You are subject to free Strikes.

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 Post subject: Re: Casting ranged spells into melee?
PostPosted: Sat Jan 04, 2014 6:20 pm 
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wilcoxon wrote:
If you cast a ranged spell at a target in melee, do you take the penalties as with a bow? Does it depend on which defense is targeted?


If it targets Avoidance or Fortitude, yes.

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 Post subject: Re: Casting ranged spells into melee?
PostPosted: Sat Jan 04, 2014 7:19 pm 
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Yes, spells that target avoidance or fortitude can be a pain to cast against targets in melee. Though see Codex of Heroes for Adaptation: Arcane Accuracy as a possible solution.

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 Post subject: Re: Casting ranged spells into melee?
PostPosted: Sat Jan 04, 2014 8:39 pm 

Joined: Fri Sep 27, 2013 8:36 am
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Quote:
Standard: The target is at least halfway obscured, but much of the character remains visible. Attacks against this character suffer a -4 modifier. This penalty also applies to firing into melee.


PG 305 Cover, can be avoided with T3 hawkeye & the arrow knows the way

Quote:
Ranged weapon attacks (including Ranged Martial Techniques) make the attacker vulnerable to Free Strikes from adjacent enemies, unless otherwise noted.

Pg 310 Basic attack

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 Post subject: Re: Casting ranged spells into melee?
PostPosted: Sat Jan 04, 2014 10:27 pm 

Joined: Sun Sep 29, 2013 4:12 pm
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val Holryn wrote:
Yes, spells that target avoidance or fortitude can be a pain to cast against targets in melee. Though see Codex of Heroes for Adaptation: Arcane Accuracy as a possible solution.


So there is no way to use a spell that targets Fortitude without taking a penalty? That seems absurd. Why are spells that target Discipline not affected but those that target Fortitude are? I don't see the difference (I expected Avoidance targeting spells to be penalized).

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 Post subject: Re: Casting ranged spells into melee?
PostPosted: Sat Jan 04, 2014 10:31 pm 

Joined: Sun Sep 29, 2013 4:12 pm
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SamhainIA wrote:
Quote:
Standard: The target is at least halfway obscured, but much of the character remains visible. Attacks against this character suffer a -4 modifier. This penalty also applies to firing into melee.


PG 305 Cover, can be avoided with T3 hawkeye & the arrow knows the way

Quote:
Ranged weapon attacks (including Ranged Martial Techniques) make the attacker vulnerable to Free Strikes from adjacent enemies, unless otherwise noted.

Pg 310 Basic attack


Yes but the cover section heavily implies weapons and the second quote explicitly talks about weapon attacks. Where does it say that spells are subject to firing into melee penalties? I'm especially interested in the rule that says Fortitude spells are affected (I'm baffled why Fortitude spells would be but Discipline spells are not as val Holryn said).

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 Post subject: Re: Casting ranged spells into melee?
PostPosted: Sat Jan 04, 2014 11:22 pm 

Joined: Sun Nov 24, 2013 9:12 pm
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Where does it say Discipline spells aren't effected?


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 Post subject: Re: Casting ranged spells into melee?
PostPosted: Sun Jan 05, 2014 12:03 am 

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deviknyte wrote:
Where does it say Discipline spells aren't effected?


I don't know. I couldn't find anything that said spells were or weren't affected by the "firing into melee" penalty. val Holryn said Discipline spells weren't affected. I expected one of:
  1. all spells to be affected (which seriously penalizes non-Avoidance spells since you can't negate the penalty)
  2. only Avoidance spells to be affected
  3. no spells to be affected (though the existence of Arcane Accuracy adaptation indicates #2 at least)

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 Post subject: Re: Casting ranged spells into melee?
PostPosted: Sun Jan 05, 2014 12:19 am 
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Ye gods...

I have no idea why ranged Fortitude spells are potentially penalized and discipline spells aren't...except that I sorta get the idea of a mental attack not needing to to "aimed" while a "physical attacks" does. Personally I might have tried something along the lines of rays versus "emanations," with the first penalized and the second not. <shrug> I don't make the rules around here. :D Thank the gods. I would mention that the number of attack spells that target fortitude is not huge (and diminish senses is sufficiently awesome to still be worth taking) so on a practical level I don't worry about it much.

There was a big discussion on the old (now lost) boards. This is the summary of our Stat Monkeys final clarification/position. I can confirm that there was/is a penalty for firing into melee with many spells. It does affect which spells I have selected with my two spell casting PCs.

I agree and concede the A:RPG book is unclear in its text on this point.

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