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 Post subject: Advanced spells repost
PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 2013 9:46 am 

Joined: Fri Sep 27, 2013 8:36 am
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I dont think i ever got an answer on these boards about this

Quote:
Advanced Spells
Advanced Spells are simply complex Spells. At any time you may attempt to combine any two Base Spells into a single Advanced spell. To form an Advanced spell, both Base Spells must share the same Source, Duration, and Area (if applicable). You may use Adaptations to alter one or both of the Base Spells, in which case the CTN is added to the Base spell(s) individually before they are combined.
The final spell then takes on the following characteristics:
• Category: Change to Advanced.
• CTN: Equal to the sum of both CTNs - 15.
• Speed & Strain: Equal to highest spell Speed and Strain cost + half of the lower Speed and Strain cost (min of +1).
• Range: Equal to the shortest Range and number of targets. Area spell Ranges are equal to the smallest Area and the shortest Range (For example, an Advanced spell built with two spells having a 15’ Cone and 20’ Area (10’ radius) would be reduced to 15’ Cone).
• Effects: The effects of both Spells are combined; if the new spell attacks two different Defenses, then a single roll is used to determine the success of the spell. If the spell fails to bypass one of the target’s Defenses, only apply the effect that successfully bypassed
the other Defense. If the spell fails to bypass either of the Defenses, the spell fails as usual. Regardless of the combined effects, when combining two damaging spells only one of your primary casting Attribute die may explode.
• Advanced Spells and Adaptations: You may add Adaptations of either Base spell to the final Advanced spell.



What does "Area (if applicable)" mean, in specific, how does area differ from range, does that mean you can only combine Arcs with Arcs (...etc on the other ranges)? and why does that differ from the example under range?

or are we just ignoring that completely when combining spells?

(folks if this is obvious to you let me in on it because i really don't know)

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 Post subject: Re: Advanced spells repost
PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 2013 10:26 am 

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Better question how do you combine a spell thats a push speed and one that isnt?

Twisted fate COH and A pound of flesh ARPG for example

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 Post subject: Re: Advanced spells repost
PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 2013 10:59 am 
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A) Range/Area are specified together. The types need to match: Self, Melee (Targets), Range (Targets), Area, Range (Area). You can use adaptations on the base spells to get the areas to match if applicable.

If the area types match, the Advanced Spell uses the most restrictive of the two. For instance a spell that's 30' (3 Targets) combined with 60' (2 Targets) would be 30' (2 Targets). There was also a discussion on Area priority (Radius > Arc > Cone)

B) I think you can only combine Push spells with other Push spells. I remember seeing that somewhere but cannot find it right now. (We can extrapolate from the Riposte Martial Maneuver, which specifically mentions that when it becomes Base, it can only be combined with other maneuvers that are a Push action. I assume spells would work the same)

John

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 Post subject: Re: Advanced spells repost
PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 2013 2:01 pm 

Joined: Fri Sep 27, 2013 8:36 am
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so Area is listed as: #of targets, Radius, Arc or Cone, and if the spell does not share the same range its not combineable?

if a maneuver specifically has to call out that its an exception to the rule, I would not use that exception to base a generalization on.

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 Post subject: Re: Advanced spells repost
PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 2013 2:35 pm 
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SamhainIA wrote:
so Area is listed as: #of targets, Radius, Arc or Cone, and if the spell does not share the same range its not combineable?

if a maneuver specifically has to call out that its an exception to the rule, I would not use that exception to base a generalization on.


The # of Targets is always Melee or Ranged
There is also the Range (Radius)

I would say yes, that the 2 spells must share (or be adapted to share) the same Range 'category' (You can combine a melee with a range but it becomes melee), you can combine a 30' (10' Radius) with a 20' (30' Radius) to get 20' (10' Radius).

As for the Push, I don't think it makes sense to combine a Push with a Speed (Strain) spell. The mechanics of each are different and there may be some strange (potentially broken) combinations.

John

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 Post subject: Re: Advanced spells repost
PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 2013 2:38 pm 
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SamhainIA wrote:
so Area is listed as: #of targets, Radius, Arc or Cone, and if the spell does not share the same range its not combineable?

if a maneuver specifically has to call out that its an exception to the rule, I would not use that exception to base a generalization on.


That's my current understanding. We spent a lot of electronic ink talking about advanced spells in the last forum but I don't think we reached any decisions...(I remember a big debate about using the smaller of two areas for example).

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 Post subject: Re: Advanced spells repost
PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 2013 2:42 pm 

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Eric, our proposed errata was turned down at this time, so we are working with the rules as they are written

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 Post subject: Re: Advanced spells repost
PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 2013 2:43 pm 
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SamhainIA wrote:
Eric, our proposed errata was turned down at this time, so we are working with the rules as they are written


I didn't hear that. I thought Pedro had taken our inputs and created a new 'wording' for advanced spells that was going in.

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 Post subject: Re: Advanced spells repost
PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 2013 2:46 pm 

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http://forums.paradigmconcepts.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=259

there is the link

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 Post subject: Re: Advanced spells repost
PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 2013 2:49 pm 
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Oops missed that. Thanks!

Now I'm off to lobby for Trip Foe and Disarm Foe to become Base maneuvers at a certain Melee SKill :)

John

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Kelb'Bakari Masalio, Dark-kin Altherian Corsair, Gentleman Archaeologist, and Wandering Bard
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