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 Post subject: Re: Shields as Weapons
PostPosted: Fri Dec 13, 2013 3:33 pm 
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Double weapons would be unbalanced if it allowed different weapons on each end. That would effectively double your rune slots. Having the same rune affect both ends is the balanced way to handle it. They are both weapon runes as well.

John

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 Post subject: Re: Shields as Weapons
PostPosted: Fri Dec 13, 2013 3:41 pm 

Joined: Fri Sep 27, 2013 8:36 am
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so why is it that much more to have a shield operate as a weapon and as shield runes? its not like your using different runes its just they are doing different things.

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 Post subject: Re: Shields as Weapons
PostPosted: Fri Dec 13, 2013 3:53 pm 
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1) Double weapons are designed to (potentially) be used to hit the target multiple times with the same weapon. As such, the rune is on the Weapon, so every hit would still be with a runed weapon. You are not having multiple runic affects, it is just that the same weapon is being used to hit people multiple times.

2) Shields are not double weapons, so you cannot hit with them multiple times per two-weapon fighting. Similarly, the argument that you should gain BOTH the Shield Benefit AND the Weapon Benefit from the same rune would mean you are LITERALLY gaining two rune benefits, while in the above example with a double weapon, you gain the SAME Rune benefit, you just get a chance to hit people more often with the weapon.

Personally, I feel that Shield Runes are Shield Runes, and that (even though they CAN be used as weapons) they shouldn't get Weapons Runes at all. However, within the scope of the universe, unless you get an amalgamated rune you CANNOT gain two benefits from the same rune. Otherwise, as stated many times, why would someone use ANY other weapon?

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 Post subject: Re: Shields as Weapons
PostPosted: Fri Dec 13, 2013 3:59 pm 

Joined: Fri Sep 27, 2013 8:36 am
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I find myself in the devils advocate position here, I dont really think they should be double duty runes.

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 Post subject: Re: Shields as Weapons
PostPosted: Fri Dec 13, 2013 4:01 pm 
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SamhainIA wrote:
so why is it that much more to have a shield operate as a weapon and as shield runes? its not like your using different runes its just they are doing different things.


The shield is already incredibly useful as it can be used as both. Allowing runes to count double duty as both multiplies their versatility beyond anything else. If there were a rule that allowed you to attune your runes each day as either weapon or shield that would be powerful but manageable.

A weapon rune only has effect when you're attacking with it. Letting shields have both the attack and passive bonus all the time is double dipping into unbalanced territory.

With double weapons, you are using one weapon. Certainly using the double weapon part is nice perk, but you're suffering (as shown with calculations) a decrease in effectiveness without a major investment in talents.

John

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 Post subject: Re: Shields as Weapons
PostPosted: Fri Dec 13, 2013 4:21 pm 

Joined: Sun Nov 24, 2013 9:12 pm
Posts: 609
Nierite wrote:
Personally, I feel that Shield Runes are Shield Runes, and that (even though they CAN be used as weapons) they shouldn't get Weapons Runes at all. However, within the scope of the universe, unless you get an amalgamated rune you CANNOT gain two benefits from the same rune. Otherwise, as stated many times, why would someone use ANY other weapon?

If not both for simplicity, then this for simplicity.


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 Post subject: Re: Shields as Weapons
PostPosted: Fri Dec 13, 2013 4:25 pm 

Joined: Fri Sep 27, 2013 8:36 am
Posts: 1554
why do we need to simplify things to make them too powerful or less powerful? Its pretty clearly marked on my shield what runes are weapon runes and what is a shield rune?

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 Post subject: Re: Shields as Weapons
PostPosted: Fri Dec 13, 2013 4:35 pm 

Joined: Fri Sep 27, 2013 8:36 am
Posts: 1554
the crux of the argument to me is when I'm using my shield as a weapon (usually to shield slam or similar) Its a weapon, and not a shield during the recovery time for that maneuver. and then I'm using it as a shield.

when I don't have use of my shield I don't have any benefit from it, Runes or avoidance keep that in mind when saying you get the benefit from the shield all of the time.

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