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deviknyte wrote:

Remember, Armor Prof Shield counts as Weapon Training for Maneuvers, but not for requirements.

Interesting. I hadn't caught that distinction before (but I've also never built a char that uses a shield as a weapon).

Is it legal to select Weapon Training (Xxx Shield) as a talent if given a choice? If so, does that count as Armor Proficiency with that specific shield type as well? I think this may have been on the old boards but don't remember the answer...

Remember, Armor Prof Shield counts as Weapon Training for Maneuvers, but not for requirements.

deviknyte wrote:

Remember, Armor Prof Shield counts as Weapon Training for Maneuvers, but not for requirements.

What do you mean by this? I don't understand requirements for what? Please give an example of what you mean and use small words cause I am slow.

Is this also true for weapon based spells such "Whirling Blade"?

MaurLysander wrote:

Is this also true for weapon based spells such "Whirling Blade"?

Does Whirling Blade only work on weapons you have training in? If so, then Armor Prof doesn't count.

Author:	wilcoxon [ Mon Dec 09, 2013 10:24 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Shields
As I said above: Yes. Archetypes give Armor Proficiency talents (they just specify what options you can choose and alter how many you get) so they definitely qualify for Shield Proficiency. No need. If you take the Armor Proficiency, Shield talent in the normal way, it grants proficiency with *all* shields. It is only when granted by the Martial Archetype that it is modified to (potentially) only grant a subset of the shield proficiencies.

Author:	Harliquinn [ Mon Dec 09, 2013 10:49 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Shields
wilcoxon wrote: deviknyte wrote: Remember, Armor Prof Shield counts as Weapon Training for Maneuvers, but not for requirements. Interesting. I hadn't caught that distinction before (but I've also never built a char that uses a shield as a weapon). Is it legal to select Weapon Training (Xxx Shield) as a talent if given a choice? If so, does that count as Armor Proficiency with that specific shield type as well? I think this may have been on the old boards but don't remember the answer... You can take Weapon Training (Shields) but it is not the same as Armor Proficiency (Shield). Weapon training gives tricks and prerequisites. John

Author:	MaurLysander [ Mon Dec 09, 2013 11:16 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Shields
deviknyte wrote: Remember, Armor Prof Shield counts as Weapon Training for Maneuvers, but not for requirements. What do you mean by this? I don't understand requirements for what? Please give an example of what you mean and use small words cause I am slow.

Author:	Harliquinn [ Mon Dec 09, 2013 11:48 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Shields
MaurLysander wrote: deviknyte wrote: Remember, Armor Prof Shield counts as Weapon Training for Maneuvers, but not for requirements. What do you mean by this? I don't understand requirements for what? Please give an example of what you mean and use small words cause I am slow. You get Weapon Tricks by taking Armor Proficiency (Shield) but it doesn't count as a Weapon Training prerequisite for Weapon Mastery. John

Author:	Deviknyte [ Tue Dec 10, 2013 12:03 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Shields
MaurLysander wrote: What do you mean by this? I don't understand requirements for what? Please give an example of what you mean and use small words cause I am slow. Armor Proficiency Shield grants: 1. You gain the chosen shield's Shield Bonus to your Avoidance. 2. You may use weapon tricks of the chosen shield. 3. You do not take the untrained shield penalties. Weapon Training grants you: 1. You may use weapon tricks of the chosen shield. 2. You is the talent can counts for requirements (such as Weapon Mastery (ta) or Weapon Savant (pa) a. You still take the untrained shield penalties. b. You do not gain the shield's Shield Bonus to your Avoidance. You instead gain some kind of AR that counts as Armor (see Core Rulebook p.xxx)

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Author:	MaurLysander [ Tue Dec 10, 2013 7:50 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Shields
Is this also true for weapon based spells such "Whirling Blade"?

Author:	Deviknyte [ Tue Dec 10, 2013 9:40 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Shields
MaurLysander wrote: Is this also true for weapon based spells such "Whirling Blade"? Does Whirling Blade only work on weapons you have training in? If so, then Armor Prof doesn't count.

Author:	Harliquinn [ Tue Dec 10, 2013 11:36 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Shields
deviknyte wrote: MaurLysander wrote: Is this also true for weapon based spells such "Whirling Blade"? Does Whirling Blade only work on weapons you have training in? If so, then Armor Prof doesn't count. You can use Whirling Blade with a shield, regardless of having taken either Armor or Weapon Training Talents. You use your Ranged (Thrown) skill. Shields are always considered weapons whether you have training or not. John

Author:	Deviknyte [ Tue Dec 10, 2013 12:06 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Shields
I'm away from book, but as long as Whirling Bladedoes n't say throw a weapon you have training in, then you are good.

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