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 Post subject: Re: Weapon damage. Just a thought on a perceived problem.
PostPosted: Thu Dec 05, 2013 11:08 pm 

Joined: Mon Nov 25, 2013 8:07 pm
Posts: 18
Cool. Very cool.


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 Post subject: Re: Weapon damage. Just a thought on a perceived problem.
PostPosted: Thu Dec 05, 2013 11:59 pm 
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davout wrote:
Cool. Very cool.


If you get a chance to use it, I'd love feedback.

John

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Kelb'Bakari Masalio, Dark-kin Altherian Corsair, Gentleman Archaeologist, and Wandering Bard
"The highest compliment an Altherian can pay you is to shoot you with his flintlock. It means you were worth the expense."


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 Post subject: Re: Weapon damage. Just a thought on a perceived problem.
PostPosted: Fri Dec 06, 2013 3:25 am 

Joined: Fri Oct 11, 2013 5:01 am
Posts: 84
Harliquinn wrote:
mininin wrote:

That pretty much Tallies with what I've found: The minions just don't deal noteworthy damage to the fighters :(


Hopefully a minion going against a hero with Avoidance 25 has about a +10 to their combat skill though.

John


Just the standard minions from the adventures to date so usually about +5 at best. If it was +10 then I agree that they would be much more threatening. The whole group has checked his character sheet for 'mistakes' and 'cheaty bonuses' but can't spot any; just an evasion optimised Kio as far as we can tell. Although with the advances to 1.5 the rest of the group that have thought about it aren't far behind.


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 Post subject: Re: Weapon damage. Just a thought on a perceived problem.
PostPosted: Fri Dec 06, 2013 11:19 am 
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Was playing around with my Excel sheet and found some interesting things (Assuming all my math and assumptions are right).

Alternating Mighty Swing / Basic Attack results in lower DPT (Damage Per Tick) than just Basic Attacks once an opponent's AR is greater than 1. Assuming a 50% chance to hit and Exceptional Weapon that is.

Using TWF with a Medium (Light) and Small (Light) weapon results in a decrease of 33% DPR. Using Balanced Blades makes this only a loss of 20% DPR.

I'll be doing some other interesting things to test this out.

John

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Kelb'Bakari Masalio, Dark-kin Altherian Corsair, Gentleman Archaeologist, and Wandering Bard
"The highest compliment an Altherian can pay you is to shoot you with his flintlock. It means you were worth the expense."


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 Post subject: Re: Weapon damage. Just a thought on a perceived problem.
PostPosted: Fri Dec 06, 2013 12:33 pm 

Joined: Sun Nov 24, 2013 9:12 pm
Posts: 609
Harliquinn wrote:
Was playing around with my Excel sheet and found some interesting things (Assuming all my math and assumptions are right).

Alternating Mighty Swing / Basic Attack results in lower DPT (Damage Per Tick) than just Basic Attacks once an opponent's AR is greater than 1. Assuming a 50% chance to hit and Exceptional Weapon that is.

Using TWF with a Medium (Light) and Small (Light) weapon results in a decrease of 33% DPR. Using Balanced Blades makes this only a loss of 20% DPR.

I'll be doing some other interesting things to test this out.

John
Why TWF instead of Spinning Strikes?


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 Post subject: Re: Weapon damage. Just a thought on a perceived problem.
PostPosted: Fri Dec 06, 2013 2:03 pm 
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Quote:
Why TWF instead of Spinning Strikes?


I was just going for 'basic' maneuvers. You can certainly compare spinning strikes, and even spinning strikes + unbalanced attack.

As an example:

Using Exceptional Weapons (Medium: Spd 3, Dam D6; Small: Spd 3, Dam D4), NO Balanced Blades Talent, No Incidental Movement between attacks (Though this can all be simulated in the spreadsheet), and a 50% Chance of hitting under normal conditions (Attributes of 8 (d10) and +6 Skill vs. 23 Defense)

11 Ticks Total in the Cycle
Tick 1: Small Weapon - Spinning 1st Strike / Unbalancing
Tick 2: Medium Weapon - Spinning 2nd Strike
Tick 6: Medium Weapon - Basic (While recovery ticks off)
Tick 9: Medium Weapon - Basic (While recovery ticks off)
Tick 12: Start over again as Tick 1

Combo (DPT): 1.76 DPT
Main Hand Basic Attacks (DPT): 1.67

The Spinning Strike Combo edges out just 11 ticks of basic attacks, but not by much and with an investment of several talents.

With Balanced Blades Talent, the Combo (DPT) is bumped to 2.08 DPT.

The reason things don't line up evenly is due to the way Attacks are rolled. Hit Percent is not a uniform distribution like it is with a D20 + Static Number. You're rolling 3 Dice, so the probability starts to fall sharply off past the average roll of 11. Additional bonuses to hit have a much greater impact.

John

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- John Bellando

Kelb'Bakari Masalio, Dark-kin Altherian Corsair, Gentleman Archaeologist, and Wandering Bard
"The highest compliment an Altherian can pay you is to shoot you with his flintlock. It means you were worth the expense."


Last edited by Harliquinn on Fri Dec 06, 2013 3:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Weapon damage. Just a thought on a perceived problem.
PostPosted: Fri Dec 06, 2013 2:05 pm 
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I'd love some others to download the spreadsheet and put it through it's paces. There's not a lot of documentation, but it's fairly self explanatory. You can unprotect the sheets (no password) if you want to verify the calculations behind the scene.

The Combat Simulator on the right is (I hope) a very powerful tool for planning out a series of attacks and seeing how effective they will be.

John

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- John Bellando

Kelb'Bakari Masalio, Dark-kin Altherian Corsair, Gentleman Archaeologist, and Wandering Bard
"The highest compliment an Altherian can pay you is to shoot you with his flintlock. It means you were worth the expense."


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 Post subject: Re: Weapon damage. Just a thought on a perceived problem.
PostPosted: Fri Dec 06, 2013 2:44 pm 
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Awesome Tool. Thanks John.

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 Post subject: Re: Weapon damage. Just a thought on a perceived problem.
PostPosted: Mon Dec 09, 2013 8:22 pm 
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With respect to 2WF, I think you hit the nail on the head, John. The -2 to hit can significantly reduce your chances of hitting (by nearly 20% in some cases!) Therefore, when determining whether or not it is optimal to use a 2WF maneuver, it is important to consider where your target's Avoidance falls on your character's personal to-hit Bell curve. You could be negatively impacting your DPT.

Second, it's also important to remember that DPT is still an average over time. The shorter the time interval, the less likely you are to remain within a standard deviation of the norm. i.e. It's the "any given Sunday" mentality... Each roll of the dice could be anything.

:)
Scott


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 Post subject: Re: Weapon damage. Just a thought on a perceived problem.
PostPosted: Mon Dec 09, 2013 8:58 pm 

Joined: Mon Nov 25, 2013 8:07 pm
Posts: 18
John,

Interesting analysis. Having played mostly D&D where combat was resolved with a d20. I was looking for something with a bell curve. Thinking it was more "realistic". Seeing the effects of modifiers on probabilities with a bell curve using real scenarios has had a different affect on my thinking rather than just knowing logically that modifiers affects probabilities differently.

Maybe I don't want a bell curve.


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