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Is there spell to prevent the Vanquished from getting Backup
http://forums.paradigmconcepts.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=299		 Page 2 of 2
Author:  SamhainIA [ Fri Dec 27, 2013 8:54 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Is there spell to prevent the Vanquished from getting Ba
Alex, you might want to keep in mind that not how it works at every table so your mileage may vary depending on who you play with.
Author:  Harliquinn [ Fri Dec 27, 2013 9:16 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Is there spell to prevent the Vanquished from getting Ba
aparmel528 wrote:
Ok so John: You stated that you only allow a vanquished character to revive once per scene using heal. First of all, are you applying this to PCs, NPCs, or all involved characters? Second, you said "heal". Are you referring to using the Heal Skill/talent (cant remember which it is), or all forms of heal including diminish fatigue as well as any other forms of healing i.e. leadership. I've had a battle or two where I have used either diminish fatigue or Leadership to revive a fallen ally 2-3 times. (Battle that comes to mind is HP 1.4 I think). We would not survive if a was unable to revive someone more than once per scene. Can you clarify?

Alex Parmelee
aka Tallus Octavius


Specifically the Heal Skill states once / day, so we use it for that all the time for non-magical healing. The statement within the Heal Skill says "A Target may only be returned to action from the Vanquished state once / day."

Given how the rules often do not restate things that apply in multiple places (e.g. Religious Sects for spells), we apply once / scene to most other healing unless a Fate Chip is spent for the healing. I also apply this to NPC's and their allies. Nothing frustrates a table more than spending time to kill minions and then having them rise again and again in the fight. However, this has never been a big problem at the tables I've run as a lot of folks have Leadership or Diminish Fatigue uses before folks get vanquished. Chronicler mileage may vary as Josh stated, as I've been at tables where the once / day was enforced for all healing and at tables where you are free to come back from vanquished as much as you want.

Now I've played in BI's where it was necessary to Fate Point Leadership to keep people in the fight, and BI's tend to break the rules that way :)
Author:  SamhainIA [ Fri Dec 27, 2013 9:31 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Is there spell to prevent the Vanquished from getting Ba
John your logic is very loose in that interpretation. If the heal skill were the only method for bringing back characters from vanquished then I might agree with you, but any form of stamina restoration will bring a character back (per Henry on the old boards).

I cant find the exact text, but it was part of the you cant go below 0 stamina rule and that any healing would bring you back from vanquished. Granted that's shaky, and unquote-able but i feel that it sets a firm president and is a bit stronger than the interpretation you are working from
Author:  Harliquinn [ Fri Dec 27, 2013 9:54 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Is there spell to prevent the Vanquished from getting Ba
I wasn't saying Heal skill is the only way to bring back from vanquished. However, a strict reading of the rules under the Vanquished state could be argued to support that. It mentions once a character is awakened from vanquished the Heal skill and other restorative effects can be used. Given that there is no mention of bringing someone back from vanquished under Diminish Fatigue and only mention of minions under Leadership, it could be interpreted that Back on your Feet is the only way to actually bring a PC back from vanquished.

I don't think anyone plays that strict, but I remember discussions on the prior boards that reviving from vanquished was not something that PCI intended to be unlimited in a day. I have played at tables with PCI folks where the once / scene was enforced as well.

John
Author:  Deviknyte [ Fri Dec 27, 2013 11:50 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Is there spell to prevent the Vanquished from getting Ba
Murder them.
Author:  SamhainIA [ Fri Dec 27, 2013 12:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Is there spell to prevent the Vanquished from getting Ba
Devin what a way to get back to the original question!

He is right, when you vanquish an NPC you can choose to kill them, they cant get back up after that from healing or any such thing.

PCs on the other hand are a different matter
Author:  Deviknyte [ Fri Dec 27, 2013 1:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Is there spell to prevent the Vanquished from getting Ba
SamhainIA wrote:
Devin what a way to get back to the original question!

He is right, when you vanquish an NPC you can choose to kill them, they cant get back up after that from healing or any such thing.

PCs on the other hand are a different matter

Technically when anyone is downed they don't die, raw. This can lead to grey situations where players have to cold bloodily murder people they hoped would have been died in the fight. Throwing a fireball on an area with some downed minions deals a wound to them all. Just murder them if you don't want them getting back up.

I personally give players a choice and ask is " he dead?" whenever they down foe, story pending.
Author:  SamhainIA [ Fri Dec 27, 2013 2:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Is there spell to prevent the Vanquished from getting Ba
Ive stated it before, but I don't have minions pop back up, and I think its very much along the lines of I would rather play a game where I can handwave the defeated people than force the game into casually murdering people left and right because of game mechanics.

Defeat is more abstract than death, and unless the game would significantly benefit from death and gore, that's not how I roll.
Author:  Pig Librarian [ Fri Dec 27, 2013 4:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Is there spell to prevent the Vanquished from getting Ba
some of Judges I have played with, have had my Pet Pigs (wardog stats) give up the fight once they are vanquished and revived. Judges often take control of the Pet and have it cautiously advance away from the fight to lick their wounds.
Author:  PCI Eric [ Tue Jan 07, 2014 9:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Is there spell to prevent the Vanquished from getting Ba
The answer is basically, from the Chronicler's PoV, only stand them up if it is fun.
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