Last visit was: It is currently Fri May 25, 2018 8:02 am


All times are UTC - 5 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 6 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: Coryani Nobility?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2017 5:47 am 
User avatar

Joined: Mon Nov 18, 2013 3:40 pm
Posts: 66
Location: Melbourne, Australia
I was wondering about the Coryani Nobility. Who is a Patrician and who is not?

Perhaps it is not of great significance. Then things like the Val bonus to interaction skills with those of lower social status make it of some interest. Besides, when creating a character it is nice to understand your place in things.

The Backgrounds Awakened Scion, Courtesan (val'Sheem only), Diplomat, Patrician, Dilettante, Fostered Noble and Former Tribune are all available to Coryani and all begin play with a Noble's Outfit. Does this make them nobles? Does this confer any status on them? Where does Equestrian fit into this? This background speaks of noble birth, but not Patrician.

To qualify for the Legate Path you must have one of the following Backgrounds - Noble Born, Patrician, Fostered Noble or Diplomat. Does that imply that those with any of these Backgrounds might be considered a Patrician?

Any what about other Backgrounds? Might a player of another Background consider himself of noble birth or a Patrician?

Which Coryani Backgrounds are entitled to wear the green trimmed toga of Patricians? Any can Val of these Backgrounds wear the gold trim of the Patrician Imperialis?

_________________
John Deague

Hattar Tantoros di Caligo Dark-kin - Horned Templar of Cadic
Ruggiero val'Assante Val - Young Savonan Fostered Noble
Ershan Yagmir Human - Cursed Hurkomir Nomad
Turbulus Normaven Gnome - Plump Ansharan Vagabond


Top
Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Coryani Nobility?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2017 6:03 am 
User avatar

Joined: Wed Nov 06, 2013 7:06 am
Posts: 851
Only Patrician and Former Tribune = patrician class of nobility; the others are 'lesser beings'. :twisted:
Green trim for humans, gold trim for val. If the Senate is being nasty, they can refuse you entry to their 'club' (or have you assassinated/executed...)

The other qualifying backgrounds represent varying levels of political influence within the family/social structure.

Still trying to work out how to efficiently fit Legate in before Tier IV myself without dropping something.

_________________
LARG; Astra Tonsoria Ursula val¤Dellanov, Martial Former Tribune, Sword Sage II, T2.4
LA:5E; Barbara Duran-Dellanov, Former Tribune, Fighter 1
LRC:OP; Seraphina "Flowerchild" Amakiir, Skill Hero


Top
Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Coryani Nobility?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2017 7:48 am 
User avatar

Joined: Fri Sep 27, 2013 1:06 am
Posts: 1765
Location: Portland OR
As Southernskies writes, at present the only backgrounds that qualify for the green trim are Patrician and Legate. Noble born applies to nobles outside of Coryan. You would think Awakened Scion might/should qualify...but it doesen't as written.

Although it does not explicitly say so I am of the opinion that someone who earns their way into Legate path could justify reaching a Patrician rank. Claiming green or gold trim is largely an RP thing. (And if you are outside of Coryan I guess you could wear a green trimmed toga even if you were a gnome...)

In (really) Ancient Rome the Patricians were the richest land owning oligarchs who controlled the state. Equestrians were the next step down, being rich enough to muster as cavalry when called to war. But by the time of Julius Caesar things were a lot more complicated. A lot of the old Patrician families had slid into financial decline or had even died out. While a few privileges remained the Patricians as a class were replaced by people who had enough liquid wealth to run for and win public office. Winning even once made you part of the Senatorial class (and entitled to sit in the senate as a senator for life). Equestrians at this point were essentially wealthy Romans who were not wealthy enough to reach the Senate (class was actually determined by wealth during the Census...but in practice what I said holds). If an equestrian amassed enough money they could move up in social rank.

I've never been exactly sure how that maps to Coryan. I think the Imperial Court and Governors are the true seats of power, and the Senate (while not toothless) seems to be mostly a talking shop and source of prestige (personal and familial).

In the game Patrician rank does not imply actually being in the Coryani Senate. The hero of Decimus from the SPQR novels not withstanding, I don't think you can be a Senator and still find time to adventure.

_________________
Eric Gorman

AKA Ambassador Tukufu, man of letters, tomb raider and Master Sword Sage
. . . and Sir Szymon val'Holryn, Order of the Phoenix
Formerly Sir Jaeger val'Holryn. Weilder of the Holy Avenger: Thonanos. Gave his soul to help free King Noen


Top
Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Coryani Nobility?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2017 5:31 pm 
User avatar

Joined: Mon Nov 18, 2013 3:40 pm
Posts: 66
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Thanks for the reply Eric

That's very interesting. I guess I have a limited understanding of Coryani (Roman) nobility. Still I have a few questions that you or someone might answer.

What about the daughters and sons of Coryani nobility? Do they inherit the status? Does only the eldest inherit the status? Do the children of Patricians have to achieve their own status?

A bit of a rules query - why do Noble Born (who can't be Coryani) qualify for the Legate Path? Legate sounds like a Coryani only thing.

What does Noble's Outfit mean for a Coryani? Are the marks of status on a toga other than the green trim of the Patricians?

_________________
John Deague

Hattar Tantoros di Caligo Dark-kin - Horned Templar of Cadic
Ruggiero val'Assante Val - Young Savonan Fostered Noble
Ershan Yagmir Human - Cursed Hurkomir Nomad
Turbulus Normaven Gnome - Plump Ansharan Vagabond


Top
Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Coryani Nobility?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2017 6:26 pm 
User avatar

Joined: Fri Sep 27, 2013 10:47 am
Posts: 2403
Location: Central Alberta
I will use Ancient Rome (mostly Republican Rome vs. Imperial due to familiarity with it) whenever I don't have a great Coryani example:

deluge wrote:
What about the daughters and sons of Coryani nobility? Do they inherit the status? Does only the eldest inherit the status? Do the children of Patricians have to achieve their own status?


Do not think of Patrician families as standard feudal lords. Think of them as extended families, or better yet, as Mafia groups. In Rome, the eldest male (typically the father) is the head of a household and holds absolute power over those beneath them. These individual households could belong to various Tribes/Clans/Families, such as Gaius Julius Caeser being a member of the Julia Gens (his particular Patrician Clan). The Patriarch (and in Coryan, some cases Matriarch) of the family is typically an elder family member, but ultimately it is the person that the rest of the clan can accept as the head of the family.

That said, in high-status families (like the Tensin-Balin's) certain positions can be passed down within the family. For example, a sitting member of the senate may (and likely would) have their Senate seat pass to their child after their death. In Ancient (republican) Rome, membership in the Senate was determined by holding a magistrate position beforehand, but Coryan doesn't quite line up with that.

Quote:
A bit of a rules query - why do Noble Born (who can't be Coryani) qualify for the Legate Path? Legate sounds like a Coryani only thing.


The vaguaries of writing? The way Legate is written in the Codex of Heroes makes it sound more like a generic governor, magistrate, or official than the literal latin word Legatus. As such, the FUCNTIONAL meaning of the word in Arcanis Rules applies to any nationstate with a bureaucracy and officials, be it a Provincial Governor, a City Prefect, a Mandarin of the Khitani Empire, or even an official in King Osric's Court.

In real life, the Legate was the appointed military governor of an Imperial Province of the Roman Empire who was named by the Emperor (as opposed to an elected official elected by the Senate in Senatorial Provinces), as well as being the functional equivalent of a General of a Legion.

Quote:
What does Noble's Outfit mean for a Coryani? Are the marks of status on a toga other than the green trim of the Patricians?


In Rome, the very act of wearing a Toga showed you were of 'noble' birth (a trait stolen from the Etruscans, btw). In Coryan, the Toga is a more common garment marking you as a citizen of the Empire, with the different colours differentiating you from a Plebeian (commoner), a Patrician (green trim), or a Patrician Imperialis (gold trim). Any val patrician is automatically a Patrician Imperialis (because they are blessed by the Gods), but not all val are patricians. In the original Codex Arcanis, it was stated that several (human) patricians would often marry val commoners to 'advance' themselves up the social ladder of the Empire by injecting some val genes into their lines, making at least their progeny Patrician Imperialis.

_________________
Cody Bergman
Legends of Arcanis Campaign Staff
Initial Author Contact/Adventure Vetting

Haakon Marcus val'Virdan, Divine Holy Judge of Nier
Ruma val'Vasik, Martial Crusader and Master of the Spear
Jorma Osterman, Arcane Coryani Battlemage


Top
Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Coryani Nobility?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2017 7:35 pm 
User avatar

Joined: Fri Sep 27, 2013 1:06 am
Posts: 1765
Location: Portland OR
deluge wrote:
A) What about the daughters and sons of Coryani nobility? Do they inherit the status? Does only the eldest inherit the status? Do the children of Patricians have to achieve their own status?

B) A bit of a rules query - why do Noble Born (who can't be Coryani) qualify for the Legate Path? Legate sounds like a Coryani only thing.

C) What does Noble's Outfit mean for a Coryani? Are the marks of status on a toga other than the green trim of the Patricians?


In order...
A) Generally yes. I agree with what Cody wrote. In addition I would add that in Roman times the Census applied to the head of the household, so even as adults you were under "Dad the Senator" and thus of the Senatorial class. This is strongly at odds with how we live today. That said "children" needed to achieve their own status too, because when "Dad the Senator" died they had to have sufficient wealth and prestige to pass that status on to their children and future generations. I don't know what the exact mechanisms were for falling out in Rome, but families did topple from greatness. In Arcanis the fastest way to see ruin is to anger one of the great Val families. Talk to House Otreco ...

B) what Cody said. :D

C) that's a great question since there are backgrounds beyond Patrician and Tribune that give you a Noble's Outfit. I see two possibilities for such an outfit. One: in Republican Ancient Rome, Patricians were allowed a wide colored stripe and equestrians were allowed a thin one on their togas. So perhaps a Diplomat (or such) would be allowed to wear a "noble's garb" with a thin stripe of green or gold as part of their official function. This somewhat ties in with other special garments that were worn for official or ceremonial purposes (an all purple toga was worn by generals during triumphs...). Two: the other possibility I see is that the Noble's Garb" is a Toga made out of exceptional materials and dyes. Not all clothes/togas were plain white! That was just a thing when running as a candidate for office. Rome was always passing and changing sumptuary laws limiting who could wear what. Coan cloth & true silk from the orient, as well as red and purple dyes were often restricted to the upper crust or periodically banned.

As an aside, if anyone is looking to get a feel for Coryan second hand through looking at Rome then I might suggest these as possible resources:

*Rome the miniseries (on blue ray)
*the SPQR mystery novels set against the rise of Julius Caesar. By John Maddox Roberts
*the mystery novels by Lindsey Davis set against the times of Emperors Vespasian & Domitian
*the Roma Sub Rosa mystery novels by Steven Saylor (more or less) in the time of Julius Caesar.

*someone looking for a deeper look at Rome might try the relatively new history book SPQR: A History of Rome by Mary Beard. Or Stacey Schiff's biography Cleopatra. Both of which I found highly readable.

_________________
Eric Gorman

AKA Ambassador Tukufu, man of letters, tomb raider and Master Sword Sage
. . . and Sir Szymon val'Holryn, Order of the Phoenix
Formerly Sir Jaeger val'Holryn. Weilder of the Holy Avenger: Thonanos. Gave his soul to help free King Noen


Top
Offline Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 6 posts ]  Moderators: james.zwiers, PCI Eric, PCI_StatMonkey

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group
Theme created StylerBB.net & kodeki