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 Post subject: Captivating Melody: spell radius & aggression
PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2016 12:33 am 
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What is the proper radius of the Captivating Melody base spell and its adaptation? On ARPG, p. 369, the base spell description lists "Range: 30' (10' Radius)". The second adaptation says, "Increase the CTN by 3, Speed and Strain by 2 to change the spell's radius to 10' Radius." Paying extra for no change is ridiculous, so I suspect that one or the other is wrong, or else the spell base radius was increased without anyone realizing the need to drop the now-redundant adaptation.
What's the base radius? What does the radius become with the adaptation?

As a further question on Captivating Melody, does the spell end for all targets or just the damaged/victimized target when this clause kicks in? "If any aggressive action is taken against the Target or damage is dealt to the Target, the spell ends immediately." I'd GM it as being dismissing it just against the one target, or else the spell doesn't pack that much of a punch. In a shared campaign it's good to get a ruling or at least consensus lest every GM interpret it differently.

I checked the FAQ/Errata and this forum but didn't see any mention of these aspects of the spell.

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 Post subject: Re: Captivating Melody: spell radius & aggression
PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2016 12:42 am 
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The errata for Captivating Melody changes one line of the effect to read, "Creatures under the effect of the Captivating Melody are Distracted and grant Tactical Edge (pg. 305) to all opponents for as long as they are under the effect of this spell." What does "Distracted" mean there? Since it's capitalized, it reads like a word with game meaning, but I don't see a definition for Distracted in the rules. Page 19 of the FAQ also says, "(see Distracted pg. 318)" but page 318 of my copy of the ARPG doesn't list Distracted even though p. 318 has other Limiting Conditions.

Inferring from other uses of the word "distracted" in the ARPG it probably has to do with active skill rolls, especially for Perception and Empathy. But what?

This answer I found later....

The Codex of Heroes defines the Distracted condition on page 145 (also in the FAQ/Errata p. 24):

Distracted: Distracted characters may not perform Perception Action Skill Rolls (though they retain their Passive Perception Value) and suffer a -2 penalty to all Empathy Action Skill Rolls. They grant others a +1 bonus to all Persuasion Action Skill Rolls used against them for as long as they remain Distracted.

Still, the FAQ mention of Distracted should be updated to point to CoH instead of ARPG. The FAQ/Errata does also include the update to add the description of Distracted to page 318, but since it doesn't look like a revised PDF or revised printing will be out, it's misleading to point to a page that doesn't really (just should) have the text.

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 Post subject: Re: Captivating Melody: spell radius & aggression
PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2016 5:54 pm 
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There is a second errata that applies regarding the adaptation.

The base spell is 30' (10'), so provokes free strikes. The adaptation becomes Self (10') and doesn't provoke free strikes.

...aaaaaannnnnndddddd its recorded on the forum not the Errata document which explains why you're confused (made after the current Errata version was published).

viewtopic.php?p=19018#p19018

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 Post subject: Re: Captivating Melody: spell radius & aggression
PostPosted: Wed Dec 07, 2016 2:33 am 
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Southernskies, thanks for the pointer, but I don't see the "second errata" for the adaptation. The printed spell's adaptation changes the radius (not the range) to 10' but it was already 10'. It doesn't change it to Self (Radius 10'). If there exists a separate errata that does that, it is not in the thread you linked to, and I could not find it by searching the forum for "Captivating Melody".

I agree that the base spell is range 30' (10' radius) and thus provokes free strikes. I see nothing anywhere about the adaptation making it range Self (10' radius).

The recording of new rules just on the forums is frustrating, and word has it that it discourages new players who hate hearing that one must read the forums to know all the rules. That said, many rules do need clarification or erratas; it's just that the official FAQ/Errata needs to be released much more often than it is.

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 Post subject: Re: Captivating Melody: spell radius & aggression
PostPosted: Wed Dec 07, 2016 6:29 am 
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My totally unofficial take is: the spell has a range of 30' and a 10 radius as its base. I currently ignore the adaptation. IMO the text is redundant and thus irrelevant until clarified. My best guess is that at some point the spell was modified from a previous state and that that the adaptation once made sense. Perhaps something like the spell was originally a single target Teir II that got changed to a mass effect Tier III spell.... ::shrug:: if you want a bigger area you can always take the talent Adaptaion: Expand Area.

I do know it's going to be a very popular spell as it gives casters some hard battlefield control. Tukufu used it over and over during the BI in the First City so the table could attack our enemies piecemeal.

An important limitation of CM (and all sustained spells) is that you need to reroll an attack each time you sustain the spell. See pg 346 in A:RPG.

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 Post subject: Re: Captivating Melody: spell radius & aggression
PostPosted: Wed Dec 07, 2016 9:47 am 
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val Holryn wrote:
I do know it's going to be a very popular spell as it gives casters some hard battlefield control. Tukufu used it over and over during the BI in the First City so the table could attack our enemies piecemeal. An important limitation of CM (and all sustained spells) is that you need to reroll an attack each time you sustain the spell. See pg 346 in A:RPG.


I was your judge at that BI and found that spell to be quite affective at shutting down the bad guys. Almost TOO effective, but I hate to penalize players for good tactics. :) Sometimes you DO have the right tool for the job at hand, as they found out when my Beltinian played Upon a Distant Shore. :D

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 Post subject: Re: Captivating Melody: spell radius & aggression
PostPosted: Wed Dec 07, 2016 5:47 pm 
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Quote:
Any spell whose descriptive block contains a Range entry that specifies an area effect, but which does not specify a range at which this area can be targeted, should be assumed to have a range of self. For example, the Rebuke spell, has a radius of 10', whose targeting location is self; despite the self not being explicit in the textual description of the spell.


The Adaptation does not specify a range, so becomes Self (10').

When you look through adaptations for other spells, Captivating Melody is worded that way specifically.


Reference Examples:
Alarm; specifically increases existing radius.
Arc of Lightning; lists range and target.
Awe; change to cone (above errata applies making it Self (15' Cone))
Blood Boil; specifically increases existing radius.
Breath of the Dragon; change to arc (above errata applies making it Self (10' Arc))
Castigate; specifically changes to 30' (10'r)
Crushing Weight; specifically changes to 20' (10'r)
Elemental Bolt; specifically changes to 30' (10'r)

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 Post subject: Re: Captivating Melody: spell radius & aggression
PostPosted: Wed Dec 07, 2016 5:57 pm 
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Southernskies wrote:
The Adaptation does not specify a range, so becomes Self (10').

The Adaptation explicitly states that it changes the radius, not that it changes the range. If it stated that it changed the range, then the argument of defaulting to self would hold, but since it states that it changes the radius (from 10' to 10') then it is an assumption on your part that the entire range changes.

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Quintus Ovidius val'Mehan - patrician military tribune
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 Post subject: Re: Captivating Melody: spell radius & aggression
PostPosted: Wed Dec 07, 2016 5:57 pm 
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I'm glad to hear from Eric Gorman (Tukufu) that it's a useful spell. :-)

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Quintus Ovidius val'Mehan - patrician military tribune
Amadi val'Abebi - Monk of Althares
Talathos - choleric Kelekene dabbler


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 Post subject: Re: Captivating Melody: spell radius & aggression
PostPosted: Wed Dec 07, 2016 8:31 pm 

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To derail this thread hopefully only a little, I do want to ask a rules question about Captivating Melody and spells like it. It is a a control spell, an illusion spell, and a diety spell. But it is clearly a mind effecting spell as well.

How do rules/effects that effect control spells effect this spell? Such as a band of the awakened (quickening mind), the talent "My Mind is My Own", or the serenity rune? Will those help against this spell all the time because it is mind effecting (which is what these rules seem to be aiming for) and has control as a possible tradition, or only when it is cast by a caster using the control tradition?

It seems like it should probably should only work when cast from that specific tradition, but then it sort of neuters all those abilities that are designed to protect your mind, if many of the times mind effecting spells that are on the Control tradition list are instead used from a different tradition. It also neuters some NPC special abilities if they are immune/resistant to control spells (like mindless undead) but can still be effected by such a spell if cast from the deity tradition.

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