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 Post subject: Heirlooms
PostPosted: Sat Oct 26, 2013 5:15 am 
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Joined: Fri Sep 27, 2013 1:06 am
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What can you take as an Heirloom?

The talent reads armor, shield or weapon (under 75 gc) at the top but then goes on to list horses as a recommendation for Hinterlanders. I know in an old thread people talked about using the intersection of heirloom pets and val'Dellenov bloodline powers. I am also pretty there was a thread that discussed using Heirloom to acquire expensive equipment.

Alas I remember non eof the rulings. Does anyone remember if ...

Can I take Heirloom (as a Kio) to have Hawk instead of a horse? What about a dog? A Leopard?
If I was (an elorii?) caster of some stripe could I use Heirloom to take a wand? Or a Rune staff (from FiM II)?
Could I take Heirloom to have an exceptional Altherian Sextant or Spyglass? A Carriage or Chariot?

Think that covers it. Thanks for the input.

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 Post subject: Re: Heirlooms
PostPosted: Sat Oct 26, 2013 5:43 am 
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Reasonably sure that you won't be allowed to take a wand or runestaff. I believe that someone out there already used Heirloom to get a chariot. Eric Hughes I think.

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 Post subject: Re: Heirlooms
PostPosted: Sat Oct 26, 2013 9:01 am 

Joined: Fri Sep 27, 2013 11:41 am
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I believe it was officially limited to Armor, Weapon, Shield, Animal.

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 Post subject: Re: Heirlooms
PostPosted: Sat Oct 26, 2013 11:43 am 

Joined: Sun Sep 29, 2013 4:12 pm
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mighty28 wrote:
I believe it was officially limited to Armor, Weapon, Shield, Animal.


And (at least) artisan/crafting gear (granted by Apprentice of the Masters background). I would expect you could take almost any gear as Heirloom provided the cost would not be >75GC.

One question I came up with is if you took an Heirloom Smithing Hammer would it be exceptional for both crafting and combat? I would think so but it's definitely not addressed in the rules.

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 Post subject: Re: Heirlooms
PostPosted: Sat Oct 26, 2013 1:30 pm 

Joined: Fri Sep 27, 2013 11:41 am
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That is an interesting question......but it would take a seperate Heirloom Talent to get an Exceptional hammer. IIRC, the Talent from the background only gives Fine quality.

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 Post subject: Re: Heirlooms
PostPosted: Sat Oct 26, 2013 2:32 pm 

Joined: Sun Sep 29, 2013 4:12 pm
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Hmm. I had missed that. Now I'm curious why they would downgrade Heirloom just for Apprentice of the Masters background. The background is already mechanically "meh" even if it gave an exceptional artisan item (3 skills is way below avg for backgrounds (it does include melee (choice)), 3 talents is a little above avg (but none are anything that special with heirloom downgraded), 4d10 sp is above avg but not amazing).

In any case, I'm still curious if an Heirloom Smithing Hammer would apply to both weapon and tool categories (whether it be fine quality from this background or exceptional quality from taking the talent directly)?

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 Post subject: Re: Heirlooms
PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2013 1:47 pm 

Joined: Fri Sep 27, 2013 8:36 am
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The talent from the book is limited to Armor, weapon and shield, Animal was added on in the bestiary as a sidebar.

I have strong feelings on this particular topic along the "play the same game as everybody else" front (that I may have harped upon in the past)

I dont think we had any official ruling on that other than those points, we did have a long discussion about just allowing anything.. but I dont really agree with that.

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 Post subject: Re: Heirlooms
PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2013 5:12 pm 
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SamhainIA wrote:
The talent from the book is limited to Armor, weapon and shield, Animal was added on in the bestiary as a sidebar.

I have strong feelings on this particular topic along the "play the same game as everybody else" front (that I may have harped upon in the past)

I dont think we had any official ruling on that other than those points, we did have a long discussion about just allowing anything.. but I dont really agree with that.


Technically, the talent from the book lists horses as examples that aren't Armor, Weapon, or Shield for heroes from the Hinterlands.

As for allowing other items, for the campaign, it should generally be limited to those. However, I tend to be on the other side of the fence that if you want to use Heirloom to gain an Exceptional (though not mechanically different) version of any item under 75 Gc, go for it.

John

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 Post subject: Re: Heirlooms
PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2013 8:36 pm 

Joined: Sat Sep 28, 2013 6:45 pm
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I have used an Heirloom to gain both a Wand and a Chariot in the past. The wand on the grounds that it is a weapon. The Chariot on the grounds that it is both a weapon and a mode of transportation. However the economics of the chariot required that I expend another talent on an heirloom Quality Light War Horse, to team with a light war horse acquired from the Tribune Background. The expenditure of multiple talents for multiple heirlooms was allowed in the draft Erratta that was published prior to Origins. But I believe has been dropped.

However, I have dropped the Chariot from my Blessed Lands PC on grounds of fairness unrelated to the permissibility of the choice in regards to the heirloom talent. The reason was that the Chariot was unbalancing. Either I had the use of a chariot at the table which gave me a huge advantage in mounted combat. OR, as was the case in 80% of non-BI encounters, and 100% of the BI, the size Huge wheeled nature of the chariot was not usable at all which essentially meant that I was shorting the table effectiveness of two talents.

As for "Playing the same game as everyone else", I take the more liberal stance of John which is to say if it is in the book, and under the price cap, you can take it. The reason is that with a Hawk, or other equipment just isn't going to be as useful as a Weapon, Armor, or Shield as often. Even a horse is less useful than the three types as horses are not useable in buildings or dungeons.

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 Post subject: Re: Heirlooms
PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2013 10:15 pm 

Joined: Fri Sep 27, 2013 8:36 am
Posts: 1554
Wands are not weapons.
Pg 13, Forged in magic
Quote:
Although Wands are wielded like weapons, they are not.


thats pretty clear

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