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 Post subject: Spirits vs. Shades
PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2016 4:02 pm 

Joined: Thu Nov 07, 2013 9:37 pm
Posts: 796
Location: Michigan
I play a shaman, and he recently gained the ability to detect spirits. It is my understanding that shaman are supposed to be the experts on spirits. Beltinians, on the other hand, are supposed to be the experts on shades. But in two different Beltinian related modules I know about, the word spirits are used regularly to describe the creatures encountered, etc.

Is this just imperfect editing? I'll not that the Beltinian's exorcist's ability to detect shades, and the shaman's ability to detect spirits come from the same talent, with just little tweaks. Where is the line between a spirit and a shade, and is there intentional confusion/blending of these two things? Are they distinctly different things to people who know about them in world, or is the line blurry like it appears to be in the rules

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 Post subject: Re: Spirits vs. Shades
PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2016 4:08 pm 
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Joined: Wed Oct 23, 2013 11:34 am
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Location: Southwestern Ohio
I'm no one official but do play a Beltinian. As I understand it shades are undead (like ghosts) the remnant of someone once living. I'm guessing a spirit (such as a nature spirit that a shaman might bargain with) was never corporeal to begin with. Also as I understand it I have as a Beltinian no "authority" over spirits even though I believe the Between Worlds talent would let me sense their presence. And like you I appreciate more clarity on this matter, although we usually get it worked out at the table. :) Now to muddy the waters a bit (I'm at work without the books or my character sheet) I know there's some things I can do or runes I can get that would let me affect incorporeal creatures (as least that's my recall on it).

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 Post subject: Re: Spirits vs. Shades
PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2016 6:33 pm 
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Joined: Wed Nov 06, 2013 7:06 am
Posts: 891
One of those 'no clear answer' world-view queries.

In gameplay terms, its defined by the Threat stat-block:
Beltinians can detect: Type: Undead, Subtype: Shade (see CSE:Threats chapter)
Between Worlds (ta) can detect: Type: Spirit (see Bestiary Vol.1)

According to some schools of thought, Elorii could be considered 'spirits' as they are elemental essence infusing a constructed body... :geek:

Note that Incorporeal is a Trait held by all of these creatures, but not unique to them (high level spellcasters and some weird creatures may also have it).

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 Post subject: Re: Spirits vs. Shades
PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2016 7:46 pm 

Joined: Fri Sep 27, 2013 11:41 am
Posts: 486
Location: Fort Wayne, IN
My guess is it is an editing oops. Shades are incorporeal undead (a "ghost" being one example). Spirits are other incorporeal creatures...but NOT undead. For example, off the top of my head, if you had a major-mojo naga Psion who transformed himself into a being of pure mental energy, he would be classified as a Spirit. The biggest monkey wrench in the works are critters made of shadowstuff....they could be either, depending on the writer's vision/origin of the beastie.

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