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 Post subject: Re: ARG 2.0 - What would you like to see?
PostPosted: Fri Aug 26, 2016 5:08 pm 
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Joined: Fri Sep 27, 2013 10:47 am
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Location: Central Alberta
As stated many times previously, the map is forthcoming. From my understanding (nobody official on that side) it keeps getting delayed and pushed back as more cruchy products take priority. You can play a game without an (updated) world map, but not without rules, after all.

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Haakon Marcus val'Virdan, Divine Holy Judge of Nier
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 Post subject: Re: ARG 2.0 - What would you like to see?
PostPosted: Fri Aug 26, 2016 5:33 pm 
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Location: Southwestern Ohio
I get the map is forthcoming. But I guess to play the devil's advocate I have to ask why one was not included in the original book? Maps are selling points. The Lord of the Rings just would not be the same without a map. Off the top of my head I can't think of a fantasy RPG I've bought or looked at recently that did not have a map in the core rulebook, if that core book included world info like the ARG does. Remember the vast majority of players don't use the forums and probably don't know it exists. That was pretty clear at Origins (and those are the diehards not the casual players).

I guess my major point is we are spending a lot of time on mechanics and we should not forget the sort of things that catch people's eye in the first place, like maps and art. Arcanis has some good versions of the latter. Can we assume that once that cool world map gets finally done that's something we can put in ARG 2.0? Given the stiff competition for people's time and money we can't afford to leave anything out.

Below is the Amazon review that got me thinking about maps. I don't care for the tone but unfortunately some of the observations are valid. Arcanis has always had issues with getting it's presence noted in the wider gaming world. Hopefully we can do some things to change that. 5th ed might be a step in that direction. Time will tell. :)

https://www.amazon.com/Arcanis-World-Sh ... ewpoints=0

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Michael T. Hebert

Haakon val'Ishi, Beltinian Exorcist 2.7 [Divine]
Ursula val'Holryn, Grand Master of the Tralian Hammer 2.2 [Martial]
Arun of Tultipet, Holy Champion of Neroth 1.10 [Expert]
Rikitsa val'Holryn, Psion 1.9 [Arcane]


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 Post subject: Re: ARG 2.0 - What would you like to see?
PostPosted: Fri Aug 26, 2016 6:32 pm 

Joined: Fri Sep 27, 2013 12:08 am
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Excellent review. Thank you for bring it to our attention, Mike.

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 Post subject: Re: ARG 2.0 - What would you like to see?
PostPosted: Sat Aug 27, 2016 6:29 am 
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Joined: Wed Oct 23, 2013 11:34 am
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Location: Southwestern Ohio
Thanks Henry! I agree there are game mechanic issues we can improve. But all the great mechanics in the world won't sell the game initially to a new user. Unfortunately it's the eye candy that does that.

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Michael T. Hebert

Haakon val'Ishi, Beltinian Exorcist 2.7 [Divine]
Ursula val'Holryn, Grand Master of the Tralian Hammer 2.2 [Martial]
Arun of Tultipet, Holy Champion of Neroth 1.10 [Expert]
Rikitsa val'Holryn, Psion 1.9 [Arcane]


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 Post subject: Re: ARG 2.0 - What would you like to see?
PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2016 7:09 am 

Joined: Thu Dec 19, 2013 8:03 pm
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I like most of Val'Holryn's list for mechanics -particularly #2. Given how staggering the disparity of utility Val bloodlines can have discounting them would do a lot to mollify the players who chose fluff over yet another Val'Virdan.

Also I endorse #4 as my Templar of Belisarda is an Expert for reasons have everything to do with not being stuck with being a damn Archer like a Divine Archetype would. My choice to be an Expert is irritating, unseemly, and unfortunately useful.

And #6. The Talents are too often unimpressive, unremarkable, and probably unnecessary. There's also too much that's just "Weapon Master: you'll take it because you use a weapon" Talent Tax non-choices.

But for content I'd like to see more Elorii lore.

Getting into the Eloran Quarter in Seremas was gratifying in a way probably excessive for the otherwise handful of paragraphs about architecture and decorations. That felt like I'd been waiting for it a very long time.

And then, y'know -you really can't go home again.

But for the ARG I seriously think the Elorii status as the "you don't really know your culture and 90% of the story isn't even peripherally about you wheee!" race of Arcanis will do little to coax in players interested in an otherwise pleasantly different version of the Elf^. This would be a problem for anyone but stacked with an archetype who's base concept includes a strong historical identity it's a real blister. "You really shouldn't play that here" is a terrible message to pack in.

So some actual in-character perspective on what a "typical" Elorii city looks like and how it's society is structured would be useful*.

And for Her sake can we finally get SOMETHING on the actual tenets of Belisarda herself?! I might be able to find The Temple of the Whistling Fox on a map but I couldn't tell you even the basics of the actual, formal church of Belisarda. I could tell you what a temple of Hers might look like, but I couldn't give much illumination into what actually happens there that wouldn't be generic to any other deity.

This isn't necessarily crucial as a specific detail but it as an approach to your potential players. If they're asking "so who am I and what do I believe in" and your answer is "make it up we don't tell that story" you're encouraging a response of "oh, ok. It's cool. There's always more Pathfinder to play and I already own those books."

*tactful understatement.

^also things like do Elorii express genes like Humans do -inherited traits, etc- (I hope not, would be boring and have all kinds of boring implications). We've got it that Psionic talent stems from a specific organ so are Elorii anatomically different in any interesting ways? Are they still immune to most diseases? Do they crave salt and sweets like humans? Elorii didn't evolve, but if Gar did how much of a difference is there?

The biology doesn't need to be perfectly plausible as much as it needs to be interesting, but having more insight into the biological perspective of the Elorii would help inform their behavior. Ditto culture; the Elorii are uniquely "privileged" to have no comforting illusions about their creation because they've met their creators.

I think this is incredibly important. There's no myth of being "the chosen people" because they were created to be slaves. There's no confusion about who created them because they saw the process in a very naked light. There's no peripheral cultures like the Undir or the Naori to the humans -there's just the Elorii and they don't come in separately originating tribes. There's no ready co-opting of their basic identity as they are literally the Children of Belisarda and in way alien to every human they have a universal link that spans any cultural difference as there are no sub-races of Elorii in the way humans think of them.

There are no "other Elorii" there is just "the Elorii" and they come in one of 5 flavors each time every time and all from the same point in time. Even of they don't know the specifics like they might have they still have a unique sense of their own place in history -"we all started right here, we didn't blunder into a calendar after millennium in the wilds staring at the moons."

Compared to how the nations of man get along and how they think of each other that two Elorii mutually angered to the point of murder other still cannot honestly think of their object of hatred as "less than Eloran" is nothing minor. They know they have no excuses; this is always fratricide.

This is a people born without innocence or ignorance and that is damn important.

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 Post subject: Re: ARG 2.0 - What would you like to see?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2016 10:04 pm 
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Location: Tampa, Florida (temp.)
I'd also like to see a graphical plot and numerical analysis of the odds that result from the ARG system. With the d20 system's d20 plus bonus, it's pretty simple to consider that there's a 5% chance of each number, uniform distribution, and it's easy to do the math to calculate the possibility and probability of achieving a Difficulty Class number with a given bonus. With ARG's 2d10 plus attribute die (that can explode) plus bonus, it's not so intuitive to realize what the odds are of hitting any Target Number with a given attribute die and bonus.

I personally wrote a computer program to make charts for myself, and I could make such plots available to PCI as well. It's interesting to see how the odds chance to realize when it is and isn't worthwhile to consider doing something. Looking at that has helped me fully understand (not just a feel from playing but get the math) how the game system makes it practically (but not literally) impossible for low-bonus characters to hit high TNs (whether Defenses or other TNs).

Having a half-page in a book to help players get this could go a long way.

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Sestius Ovidius val'Mehan Comma and Khamat - psion patrician diplomatic legate and his Myrantian tutor
Quintus Ovidius val'Mehan - patrician military tribune
Amadi val'Abebi - Monk of Althares
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 Post subject: Re: ARG 2.0 - What would you like to see?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2017 4:39 am 
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Change Arcane Shield and Shield of Enduring Will so that they can be after the attack roll has been made. As currently worded, the caster must decide to cast those spells after the declaration of the attack but before knowing the attack roll. I recommend it for two reasons:

1. From my experience, it's not worth the Push ticks to cast these spells when they only might help (unless maybe it's an area effect attack since Shield of Enduring Will is area effect with allies). They would be worthwhile if the caster knew they were useful, yet it's still just protecting against the one attack and thus isn't overpowered.

2. Practicality on game play. With experienced players, everyone says, "I attack with you such-and-such and get ## vs your Defense," rather than pausing to let the defender choose to cast a shield spell before revealing the number. Faster combats are better.

My home campaign is trying that as a house rule.

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David Thomas Chappell
Sestius Ovidius val'Mehan Comma and Khamat - psion patrician diplomatic legate and his Myrantian tutor
Quintus Ovidius val'Mehan - patrician military tribune
Amadi val'Abebi - Monk of Althares
Talathos - choleric Kelekene dabbler


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 Post subject: Re: ARG 2.0 - What would you like to see?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2018 12:40 pm 
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I'd like to see all the little story tweaks (some of which affect rules) that were included in the Arcanis 5e Campaign Setting book. For example, personal naming conventions in Salantis; religions for unden and kion cultures; and limits on what races can learn primal magic.

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David Thomas Chappell
Sestius Ovidius val'Mehan Comma and Khamat - psion patrician diplomatic legate and his Myrantian tutor
Quintus Ovidius val'Mehan - patrician military tribune
Amadi val'Abebi - Monk of Althares
Talathos - choleric Kelekene dabbler


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