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 Post subject: Advanced Spell - Body of Light
PostPosted: Wed Mar 23, 2016 12:22 pm 

Joined: Thu Nov 07, 2013 9:37 pm
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Quote:
Body of Light
Category: Advanced
CTN: 24
speed (Strain): 2 (+7)
Range: self
Duration: Scene

By invoking the spell, the pure light of Illiir flows through your body, melds with your muscles and bones, and projects forth from your hands. Your body now passes harmlessly through living beings and solid objects making it impossible to move.

The true power of this form is most evident when used in combat against the impure. Because these you can still grasp and strike, with the power of the righteous!

Effect: For the remainder of the scene, no attacks except those by undead, spirits, infernals, or entropic creatures can strike you, and against those you gain AR 2. You cannot move while formed of a body of light, as your feet cannot gain purchase on the inanimate floor beneath you. Against Undead, Spirits, and Infernals your strikes acts as a light, Speed 4 weapon dealing d6 (Primary) damage bypassing all AR. When used against Entropic creatures your strikes deals d8 (Primary) damage.

Special: Though your weapon is shaped like a natural attack or a Gladius it has no real weight or balance, making it impossible to use any of the weapon tricks while in the Body of Light. The weapon may not be thrown, or released (the weapon simply disappears upon doing so) and when attacking you may use any Melee skill.

Adaptation: Increase the CTN by 5 to add your passive Resolve Modifier to all damage rolls. Adaptation: Increase the CTN by 3 to summon a second Gladius of Light to wield in your off hand.
Adaptation: Increase the CTN by 3 and Strain by 1 to apply a Die Bump to the damage die. This Adaptation may be applied multiple times.
Adaptation: Increase the CTN and Speed by 1, and Strain by 4 to increase the Natural AR provided to 3.


Thought on the spell? In making it, I was especially cognizant of the rule from the FAQ dealing with combining special abilities of spells, namely:

Quote:
Restrictions and Limitations: If either spell is
restricted or limited (for example a spell that cannot
effect undead) then the entire advanced spell carries
over that restriction.


Since gladius of light has the restriction of not being able to impact (or be impacted by) anything but particular types of creatures, I assumed this would apply to the whole spell, making it really quite complicated. Considering how broken this essential "incorporialness" would be, I also applied the "can not move" text since it dramatically limits the spell and makes sense since you can't touch anything.

Other than that, I stripped out a bunch of the Body of the Warrior damage and attack stuff, since you are limited to only being able to effect those things effected by Gladius of Light, and it does better damage than Body of the Warrior. In truth, applied like this it has an interesting "slip sideways" kind of effect to render you untouchable in fights against things that don't meet the criteria to effect you. I'm not sure if that is broken or not. It wasn't the intent of the spell. I thought of combining these spells, because I thought it would be visually awesome to cast in a fight against something that Gladius of Light would effect, and then grapple it. It seems like just touching you should damage a creature if you are under the effects of this spell, but that isn't in the rules.

Thought?

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 Post subject: Re: Advanced Spell - Body of Light
PostPosted: Wed Mar 23, 2016 1:07 pm 

Joined: Sat Oct 05, 2013 12:46 pm
Posts: 1353
Honestly, while creative I consider it broken.

"For the remainder of the scene, no attacks except those by undead, spirits, infernals, or entropic creatures can strike you, and against those you gain AR 2. You cannot move while formed of a body of light, as your feet cannot gain purchase on the inanimate floor beneath you. "

Too many ways for this to be abused. Barring an official ruling to permit it, I would ban it from any table I ran and argue against allowing it if not the GM. The ability to make yourself untouchable in combat while allowing for continued spellcasting means every combat is an auto-success given sufficient time.

There's also the issue that you're changing a summoning of power (light) into a transformation effect which I'm not sold on from a metaphysical perspective either.

Full marks for creativity though.

With a sweep of his hat,

Paul


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 Post subject: Re: Advanced Spell - Body of Light
PostPosted: Wed Mar 23, 2016 1:25 pm 

Joined: Thu Nov 07, 2013 9:37 pm
Posts: 842
Location: Michigan
Hat wrote:
Honestly, while creative I consider it broken....

Too many ways for this to be abused..... The ability to make yourself untouchable in combat while allowing for continued spellcasting means every combat is an auto-success given sufficient time.


I totally agree with you, that it may be too abusive. Like I said, it wasn't my intent when I made it. But it does seem to be the effect per the rules.

Hat wrote:
There's also the issue that you're changing a summoning of power (light) into a transformation effect which I'm not sold on from a metaphysical perspective either.


Interesting interpretation. I had never considered it s summoning power. I always thought of the gladius as an extension of your spirit/soul brought out by the psionic power given by the gods to have semi-physical form. It can harm things that are anathema to the gods and your soul. I thought of the Body of light as infusing your body with the same soul-energy that creates the blade.

There is obviously some issues with combining the two types of power, but metaphysically I didn't have much problem with it, though I admit it does create a transformative effect that didn't exist before. Personally, I think this combination should have all kinds of interesting effects, but not the ones the rules say it should. :)

If I got to write it up without following the rules, I would have it empower your attacks like gladius of light, have you do damage an attacker who fits one of the categories if they hit you with a natural attack, and possibly give you additional defenses against attacks by them due to the form energized with a power designed to fight them. But not have it make you insubstantial. But that's not my call....

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 Post subject: Re: Advanced Spell - Body of Light
PostPosted: Wed Mar 23, 2016 2:01 pm 
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I agree that the spell has some problematic features, though I am also not 100% convinced that the 'Gladius of Light' component would affect the entire body. A possible solution would be to have it only affect the hands.

I understand that unarmed combat could technically permit the use of other body parts, but the line would have to be drawn somewhere...unless you consider your left buttocks to be a weapon, of course ;)

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 Post subject: Re: Advanced Spell - Body of Light
PostPosted: Wed Mar 23, 2016 2:22 pm 
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Location: Southwestern Ohio
acurrier wrote:
I agree that the spell has some problematic features, though I am also not 100% convinced that the 'Gladius of Light' component would affect the entire body. A possible solution would be to have it only affect the hands.

I understand that unarmed combat could technically permit the use of other body parts, but the line would have to be drawn somewhere...unless you consider your left buttocks to be a weapon, of course ;)


For some people it is. Brings new meaning to turning the other cheek. :o :shock:

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Rikitsa val'Holryn, Psion 1.9 [Arcane]


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 Post subject: Re: Advanced Spell - Body of Light
PostPosted: Wed Mar 23, 2016 3:32 pm 

Joined: Thu Nov 07, 2013 9:37 pm
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Location: Michigan
acurrier wrote:
I agree that the spell has some problematic features, though I am also not 100% convinced that the 'Gladius of Light' component would affect the entire body. A possible solution would be to have it only affect the hands.

I understand that unarmed combat could technically permit the use of other body parts, but the line would have to be drawn somewhere...unless you consider your left buttocks to be a weapon, of course ;)


Accept that you are combining it with body of the warrior which infuses your muscles and gives you natural AR2 - even on your buttocks. So Body of the Warrior does effect your entire body, not just your hands, thus by the rules I think this would effect your entire body.

If you did just have it effect the hands, than obviously there is no purpose in having the combination spell.

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 Post subject: Re: Advanced Spell - Body of Light
PostPosted: Wed Mar 23, 2016 5:21 pm 
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This one was crunched out last year:
viewtopic.php?f=56&t=1690

The Gladius of Light (sp) component creates a weapon and as such only affects your attacks. The AR from Body of the Warrior (sp) is an independent effect that would not be affected from the combination.

If Gladius of Light affected armour, it would be a very different story.

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 Post subject: Re: Advanced Spell - Body of Light
PostPosted: Wed Mar 23, 2016 5:49 pm 

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Southernskies wrote:
This one was crunched out last year:
viewtopic.php?f=56&t=1690


I brought up the idea in that thread, but it wasn't dealt with. That thread mainly dealt with combining gladius of light with other attack spells, and I don't think it necessarily resolved those either. Looking at it I guess I did kind of make a mistake in just discounting the damage from the Body of the Warrior, because in a combined spell you might have been able to get both damage dies combined.

But that wasn't really the point of this thread, which was to discuss how the application of the rules appear to make the caster effectively incorporeal to many monsters using this advanced spell.

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 Post subject: Re: Advanced Spell - Body of Light
PostPosted: Wed Mar 23, 2016 7:18 pm 
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Doesn't work. Gladius of Light gives you an attack that only affects certain creatures. Making an Advanced Spell doesn't change anything else except the attack.

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 Post subject: Re: Advanced Spell - Body of Light
PostPosted: Wed Mar 23, 2016 7:20 pm 
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As a judge I wouldn't accept TooDeep's interpretation (barring an official response). Generally the weirder the combo is, the less consistency you are going to get from different judges interpretations. This one is weird.

Here is how I'd roll:

Your unarmed attacks now only affect "the impure" and do the superior damage of the GoL. If you punch something else (malfelen, gnome robber, Val mastermind, random dog...) your strikes pass through them doing no damage.

Your body gets AR.

You get to keep moving normally.

If you are not using your hands to attack, you can still manipulate an object. Including wielding a weapon/shield.

For me the ambiguous corner case is what happens if you are grappling something the hands would damage. Technically the spell doesn't really address that point mechanically and I am resistant to permitting broken or bent combinations. But the fluff is compelling to me. So...Personally, as a judge, I'd let you spend a fate point to do the impossible and effectively grant yourself the quality of an energy aura as GoL, but only against things that are grappling you or striking you with natural weapons.

I think that's how I'd handle it.

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