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 Post subject: Re: Advanced Spell - Body of Light
PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2016 1:00 pm 

Joined: Fri Sep 27, 2013 11:41 am
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Location: Fort Wayne, IN
If you combined these two spells, you get the effect of body of warrior and create a gladius (weapon) of light. You get no weapon tricks with the created weapon. If you want to manifest it as a pike or a big, glowing fist...fine. But the effect is the same.

There is nothing to suggest in combining these spells that you suddenly become immune to attacks from creatures. Even if there was...think of the abuse potential. I cast this spell, then full-on tackle and "attack" that wall over there (my body being the weapon). Oh...it isn't one of the specified creatures? I pass through harmlessly....call me Kitty Pryde.

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 Post subject: Re: Advanced Spell - Body of Light
PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2016 1:28 pm 

Joined: Thu Nov 07, 2013 9:37 pm
Posts: 803
Location: Michigan
mighty28 wrote:
If you combined these two spells, you get the effect of body of warrior and create a gladius (weapon) of light. You get no weapon tricks with the created weapon. If you want to manifest it as a pike or a big, glowing fist...fine. But the effect is the same.

There is nothing to suggest in combining these spells that you suddenly become immune to attacks from creatures. Even if there was...think of the abuse potential. I cast this spell, then full-on tackle and "attack" that wall over there (my body being the weapon). Oh...it isn't one of the specified creatures? I pass through harmlessly....call me Kitty Pryde.


I wouldn’t say there is nothing to suggest it. The Gladius of Light spell indicates it is insubstantial to everything except certain types of creatures. The combined spell effects your body, and the rules say that special effects like that from one spell apply to both, so logically it should have that effect on your body. I didn’t come up with that take of the spell without reason.

That said, I agree on the potential for abuse. The exact abuse you mentioned was why I mentioned the recipient must be immobile. After all, if you aren’t, once you go through that wall, how do you stop? Sounds like a great way to lose your character.

I don’t disagree with your ruling either, as it is practical. But I will ask, shouldn’t the glow or weapon potentially overlap your natural attacks (hands) to allow for a d4 (might) +d6 (primary) damage attack against the special creatures (d8 in the case of entropic) that does not ignore AR? (based off the rules)? and be harmless against anything else? Like it would for any advanced spell to allow the stacking of the damage of the two spells?

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 Post subject: Re: Advanced Spell - Body of Light
PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2016 2:07 pm 
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mighty28 wrote:
If you combined these two spells, you get the effect of body of warrior and create a gladius (weapon) of light. You get no weapon tricks with the created weapon.

Having read carefully the rules for advanced-combination spells, I agree entirely with what Matt said. The two spells are simultaneous, but they do not enhance each other in creative ways; and with this particular combination they don't limit each other, either. I see it as clear-cut that this advanced spell does not grant further defensive bonus nor does it limit the defensive bonus.

Admittedly, Matt is in charge of rules for the Legends of Arcanis campaign, and whether I agree with him does not affect the ruling.

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 Post subject: Re: Advanced Spell - Body of Light
PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2016 2:21 pm 

Joined: Sat Oct 05, 2013 12:46 pm
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From a conceptual perspective ignoring mechanics for the moment, I still have a hard time meshing these two base spells. The Gladius of Light "brings forth" the weapon. Whether you want to call it a summoning or manifestation of will it is external to the character. It's effect is inherent in the fact that the power has been focused at a point (the weapon) to generate the desired effect.

Body of the Warrior very specifically internalizes the manifested power, toughening the skin and hardening the body to grant the extra damage. If the two are combined then logically the gladius of light effect becomes a layer on top of the body of warrior effect. The result of that would be to sheath the character in a golden nimbus of light.

While an impressive visual effect, I think it would lose it's most potent punch. If you stab someone with the gladius of light and the blade ignores the defenses of the creature, it will bite deep. Striking with a hand that's coated in a very thin layer of the power means that the light might not even get through the being's armor or clothing before the hand underneath encounters the creatures substantial defenses. The spell wouldn't fundamentally change the nature of the person given the layering affect as noted above, so it's not like the light punches a hole in the defenses for the fist to follow.

To me this feels like the more correct approach. Especially given that the Body of the Warrior spell doesn't create a weapon, it simply strengthens the body to be more effective.

In terms of the damage, following the logic presented, my inclination would be to say that the non GoL damage would be assessed first against the creatures defenses for physical creatures so d4 (Mi) vs. AR. IF it would bypass, then the strike sufficiently penetrated to do damage and the secondary GoL effect would also count. If the physical strike did nothing, then neither would the GoL effect. For incorporeal creatures, the physical strike would pass harmlessly through it, so only the GoL damage would apply.

While a "realistic" interpretation from a rules perspective, it's also complicated and more confusing. It raises questions about what happens if you have a way to affect spirits physically, and then you've got to reassess as well.

I think for a home campaign you could find an explanation and balance that the GM and the player could agree on. Within the realm of the shared LoA campaign, I would be inclined to say this is a spell combination that's better avoided.

This thread has encouraged me to go back and review my Dark Blade of Illir (Twilight's Blade) spell to bring it in line with the current Errata. Very situational, but could still be fun.

As I mentioned the first time, I think it's a creative idea. In a home game I think this has more potential than in LoA.

If Matt doesn't have any objections to my interpretation about the complex interaction of damage and creatures I'd allow it at my table. Your mileage may vary from GM to GM though and would be worth checking in advance. The other thing I would note is that being sheathed in a brilliant golden light is impressive and is likely to garner a lot of attention. Still, if you're short a torch.... ;)

With a sweep of his hat,

Paul


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 Post subject: Re: Advanced Spell - Body of Light
PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2016 2:29 pm 

Joined: Sat Oct 05, 2013 12:46 pm
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The one other note I would have is that GoL is specifically a speed 4 weapon regardless of form as the spell notes that it shares all the same characteristics regardless of form. This means that attacking with the combined effect slows your unarmed attacks down to speed 4, though you'd be swinging that flamberge of light for the same speed 4. Not sure how much the slightly slower speed would impact your choice of the use of the spell, but thought it was worth mentioning.

With a sweep of his hat,

Paul


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 Post subject: Re: Advanced Spell - Body of Light
PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2016 2:59 pm 

Joined: Sat Oct 05, 2013 12:46 pm
Posts: 1307
The one other wrinkle (potentially) I've just noticed is the fact that the insubstantial nature of the weapon is part of the effect rather than an explicit restriction or limitation. There are advantages and disadvantages of it being insubstantial which is why it having it as part of the effect makes more sense than as either explicitly. I don't think it impacts this particular advanced spell, but thought I'd mention it.

With a sweep of his hat,

Paul


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