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 Post subject: stacking different effects
PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2016 10:40 pm 

Joined: Thu Nov 07, 2013 9:37 pm
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Location: Michigan
So we know that things (spells, talents, etc) don't stack for the same effect, but what about related effects? The specific example I'm thinking of is "to know the gloom of night" (pg 215) and "owl eyed" on pg 202. Both give double vision in low light. I assume that would not stack since they are the same. But gloom gives 30 feet of vision in the dark. Would that stack with owl eyed's x2 range to 60 feet?

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 Post subject: Re: stacking different effects
PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2016 10:58 pm 

Joined: Sat Oct 05, 2013 12:46 pm
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toodeep wrote:
So we know that things (spells, talents, etc) don't stack for the same effect, but what about related effects? The specific example I'm thinking of is "to know the gloom of night" (pg 215) and "owl eyed" on pg 202. Both give double vision in low light. I assume that would not stack since they are the same. But gloom gives 30 feet of vision in the dark. Would that stack with owl eyed's x2 range to 60 feet?


I'm fairly confident your interpretation is correct. When asked before about whether To Know the Gloom of Night would combine with the Eyes of the Eagle option from the Heightened Senses spell Pedro smirked and responded something to the effect of "I wondered how long it would take people to think of that."

With a sweep of his hat,

Paul


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 Post subject: Re: stacking different effects
PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2016 11:30 pm 
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Owl Eyed (ta) and To Know the Gloom of Night (ta) wouldn't stack (both static? talent bonuses). The kink is what is a multiplier? Static bonus or a special bonus?

Heighten Senses (spell) looks like it will stack with either of the above, but the rulebook doesn't cover stacking of multipliers.
Other game systems (D&D) use additive multiplication based on the increase from the original number (x2 + x5 = x6).

Quote:
Owl Eyed [Skill] (ta)
Benefit: You can see double normal distance under a night sky. This does not give you the ability to see in complete darkness.


Quote:
To Know the Gloom of Night [Devout, Racial] (ta)
Benefit: You may see perfectly in non-magical darkness out to a range of 30’. You also see double normal distances under a night sky.


Quote:
Heighten Senses (spell)
Adaptation: Increase the CTN by 2 to instead gain the vision of an eagle, allowing you to see five times as far as normal.

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 Post subject: Re: stacking different effects
PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2016 3:32 pm 

Joined: Sun Sep 29, 2013 4:12 pm
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Personally, given the wording, I would say that Owl Eyed would not stack under a night sky (both being talents and both giving x2) but would stack under a non-magically dark night sky (for 60' vision). However, I'm not sure if there is such a thing as a non-magically dark night sky...

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 Post subject: Re: stacking different effects
PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2016 4:14 pm 

Joined: Thu Nov 07, 2013 9:37 pm
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Location: Michigan
toodeep wrote:
So we know that things (spells, talents, etc) don't stack for the same effect, but what about related effects? The specific example I'm thinking of is "to know the gloom of night" (pg 215) and "owl eyed" on pg 202. Both give double vision in low light. I assume that would not stack since they are the same. But gloom gives 30 feet of vision in the dark. Would that stack with owl eyed's x2 range to 60 feet?


Any chance of a ruling on this from campaign staff, rather than just conflicting player opinions?

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 Post subject: Re: stacking different effects
PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2016 10:35 pm 

Joined: Fri Sep 27, 2013 11:41 am
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Location: Fort Wayne, IN
Owl Eyed and To Know the Gloom of Night would not stack (both being Talents)

When utilizing the eagle eye adaption of Heighten Senses, it would increase To Know the Gloom of night to 150'. Combining it with Owl Eyed would give 5x vision, but you would be limited to the shadowy gloom equivalent of a torch (So, 200',,,but you would suffer the -2 to -6 insight penalty).

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 Post subject: Re: stacking different effects
PostPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2016 8:32 am 

Joined: Thu Nov 07, 2013 9:37 pm
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Location: Michigan
mighty28 wrote:
Owl Eyed and To Know the Gloom of Night would not stack (both being Talents)

When utilizing the eagle eye adaption of Heighten Senses, it would increase To Know the Gloom of night to 150'. Combining it with Owl Eyed would give 5x vision, but you would be limited to the shadowy gloom equivalent of a torch (So, 200',,,but you would suffer the -2 to -6 insight penalty).


Just to clarify, since there are parts of the talents that are static and clearly would not stack, and there are parts that are different and it is less clear - The x2 vision for owl eyes in darkness does not multiply the 30 of darkvision given by "To Know the Gloom of Night" despite them being different effects. (a multiplier and a static) I find that a little odd, since I consider the multiplier to sort of being like a die bump and the static being like a static bonus, both of which do stack if they come from talents.

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 Post subject: Re: stacking different effects
PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2016 11:39 pm 

Joined: Fri Sep 27, 2013 11:41 am
Posts: 486
Location: Fort Wayne, IN
toodeep wrote:
mighty28 wrote:
Owl Eyed and To Know the Gloom of Night would not stack (both being Talents)

When utilizing the eagle eye adaption of Heighten Senses, it would increase To Know the Gloom of night to 150'. Combining it with Owl Eyed would give 5x vision, but you would be limited to the shadowy gloom equivalent of a torch (So, 200',,,but you would suffer the -2 to -6 insight penalty).


Just to clarify, since there are parts of the talents that are static and clearly would not stack, and there are parts that are different and it is less clear - The x2 vision for owl eyes in darkness does not multiply the 30 of darkvision given by "To Know the Gloom of Night" despite them being different effects. (a multiplier and a static) I find that a little odd, since I consider the multiplier to sort of being like a die bump and the static being like a static bonus, both of which do stack if they come from talents.


They still would not stack. That part of To Know the Gloom is for darkness...0 light. Owl Eyed would still require some degree of light (as stated above).

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